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Topic: Dealer Sold Me Overweight Truck Camper - Any legal options?

Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/27/12 02:23pm

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:04am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: bka0721 on 05/27/12 02:30pm

Actual weight and advertised weights are two different animals.

What camper do you have?

Age on your truck and prior use will impact the condition of the exisiting spring set up too.

You should have came here sooner or did your research before you bought, but you know that now. The best thing is you are asking for help now.

Welcome to the forum, lots of great people and a few grumps.

bryan


08 F550-4X4-CC-6.4L Dsl-206"WB GVWR17,950#
09 Lance 1191
920wSolar~8-6vGC2-928AmpH~Tri-Star60/4MPPT Xantrex 2000W
300wSolar~2-6vAGM-300AmpH~Tri-Star45/4MPPT Xantrex 1500W
12 BMW R1200GS Adventure
06 Honda CRFX450
09 Haulmark Trlr



Posted By: SWD on 05/27/12 02:32pm

Dealers only liabilities are for the camper.....its your responsibility for the truck. You'll spend an arm and a leg for the band-aid solutions on your truck. Trade it in for something that can handle your camper.


Posted By: jmtandem on 05/27/12 02:35pm

Quote:

I made a mistake.


The solution is very simple. Don't mess with the Toyota any more. Just get a bigger more stout truck that will handle the camper. Done and you can then enjoy the camper of your choice.


'05 Dodge Cummins 4x4 dually 3500 white quadcab auto long bed.
'09 299bhs Tango.


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/27/12 02:38pm

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:04am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: RWDIII on 05/27/12 02:57pm

Now you can go to all end of year sales,get a great deal on that F150HD
8200 GVW truck you have been wanting to get.Not bashing other brands,just dont know any other brands GVW.
Just found the website and since the website says your camper is for a 3/4 ton truck,I would now look for a F250 camper special

* This post was edited 05/27/12 03:15pm by RWDIII *


2006 F150 4wd 7200gvw,Lt275-65-18,Scan Guage,Garmin,flowmaster,load levelers,Firestone work rites, sat radio 50s on 5
2013 Bronco 800
1200/1500 champion
Mostly Boondock



Posted By: Boatycall on 05/27/12 03:06pm

tamaratrav wrote:

2002 Toyota Tundra GVWR is 6,030.
The camper they sold me has a weight of 1,775 on the spec plate.
Fully loaded with occupants, actual weight is 7,700lbs

Hi!
First, welcome. Don't be afraid to ask questions here, especially on whatever truck you decide to get.

Here's what I don't get....
The GVWR is 6030.
Actual right now is 7700.
You're 1670lbs overweight.
You said The camper has an advertised dry weight of 1775.
The camper is now wet(loaded), not dry - add roughly 500lbs for one that size.
By my math, does that truck have a cargo capacity (after passengers) of ONLY 605lbs??

If that's true, no camper can go on that truck at all, not even a pop up. This explains why I don't recall ever seeing a Toy hauling a camper. They shouldn't have sold you a camper at all for that truck.

When shopping for another truck - MAKE SURE IT'S CAMPER CERTIFIED. I've owned Fords all my life. For Ford, it is a SPECIFIC option called the "Camper Package". On older Fords, it's most easily identified by looking at the rear axle. If you see a sway bar on the rear axle, it is likely rated to haul a camper - meaning there is also heavy duty springs under it. If not, it's likely not rated.

F250's and F350's have that option available, F150s do not. Don't get a half ton for that camper.


01 F350 DRW 4x4, Torklift Tie downs & Stableloads,SuperHitch,F550 Rear Suspension,Roadmaster F & R Sway Bars,Rancho 9000s,Jasper MonsterBox Tranny
2012 Eagle Cap 1160-Six 140Ah AGM Batts,Prosine 2.0 2kw Inverter,100a truck charging circuit, Dish Tailgator



Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/27/12 03:11pm

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:05am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: SooperDaddy on 05/27/12 03:15pm

Ultimately, it's the buyer who is responsible for "due diligence" when making a purchase like that. "Never trust a salesman" was probably good advise when Henry Ford sold his first car.

Once the Camper was signed for by you and registered...the dealer has no responsibility. I would report him to the local BBB however...just because!

And the dealer should be aware that making deliberate misleading statements leading to injury, damages or death can result in jail time!


My posts shouldn't be taken for factual data, and are purely fictional, for entertainment purposes, should not be constituted as related to scientific, technical, engineering, legal, religious, spiritual, or practical advice. After all it's FREE! Amen.



Posted By: amxpress on 05/27/12 03:20pm

It's easy for someone to say, go buy a new truck.
If you can afford to do that, great. But don't waste your money on a 1/2 Ton, though. You should be able to find a good used 3/4 Ton or 1 Ton truck that can handle your TC.
If you can't afford to buy another truck, you might consider selling the TC.
I definately wouldn't suggest using your present truck for the TC as it is way overloaded and you would not be happy with the way it handles and drives with that TC in your bed.
Why not go back to the selling dealer and speak to the owner? Maybe he'll understand and help you out. Maybe, though I doubt it.
Good luck.


2007 Dodge RAM 2500 Quad Cab w/6.7 Cummins
2013 Palomino Columbus 320RS
Reese 15K Pro Series manual slide
Prodigy
Firestone Air Bags
Champion 3500 genny
M.I.L denied parole! Yeah!



Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/27/12 03:40pm

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* This post was last edited 07/21/12 01:05am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: Boatycall on 05/27/12 03:40pm

amxpress wrote:

It's easy for someone to say, go buy a new truck.


I'm implying just the opposite, go used. I'm giving him info on how to spot the Camper Package option on older Fords. He should be easily able to sell the Yota and for not much extra cash at all get a good used Ford.


Posted By: lanerd on 05/27/12 03:46pm

GVWR 6030
Curb 4850

Payload 1180

Camper 1775


If you knew your payload was only 1180 (without passengers and anything else in the truck) and you knew the camper was 1775 (without any thing else in it)....why in the world would you think it would be ok...regardless what any salesman told you? I don't understand.

I'm sorry, but you just can't blame the salesman here....it's simple math and common sense.

So, ok now you're between a rock and a hard place. Sell (or trade) your Tundra for at least a 250/2500....but be careful even there too...as some 250/2500's don't have all that much more payload capacity than a 150/1500. Really do your homework this time.

Good luck

Ron


Ron & Sandie
2013 Tiffin Phaeton 42LH Cummins ILS 400hp
Toad: 2011 GMC Terrain SLT2
Tow Bar: Sterling AT
Toad Brakes: Unified by U.S. Gear
TPMS: Pressure Pro
Member of: GS, FMCA, Allegro


RETIRED!! How sweet it is....


Posted By: jmtandem on 05/27/12 03:52pm

Quote:

I'm implying just the opposite, go used. I'm giving him info on how to spot the Camper Package option on older Fords. He should be easily able to sell the Yota and for not much extra cash at all get a good used Ford.



I don't quite understand how or why new or used is any issue here. The issue is that the camper is too heavy for the truck. The OP said nothing about their finances and, in fact, perhaps has the money for a new truck. In any event it would be a new truck (new or used) to the OP with the Tundra gone. If Apache is willing to work with the OP, then perhaps just cancelling the deal as if it never happened would be the best option. The Tundra can tow more than it can haul and perhaps a relatively light TT would be a better option.


Posted By: big whitey on 05/27/12 06:30pm

somethings not kosher here and definitely does not pass the smell test.the devil is in the details or lack there of.hopefully it gets sorted out to the satisfaction of all parties involved. or


Posted By: JayGee on 05/27/12 06:34pm

Wow! I commend you on sucessfully driving this anywhere. I am not an expert on TC's but it's hard for me to believe this will move without turning over or something.


Jaygee

2005 Bounder 35E on F53 chassis


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/27/12 03:52pm

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:06am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: Photomike on 05/27/12 04:24pm

amxpress wrote:

Why not go back to the selling dealer and speak to the owner? Maybe he'll understand and help you out. Maybe, though I doubt it. Good luck.


X2


2002 GMC 2500HD 4x4 4 Door
1992 Northern Lite 9'- 6" Camper with cargo trailer for hauling supplies
Advanced Elements Kayaks
Border Collie Guard Dog

Paterson Photography Web Site



Posted By: RWDIII on 05/27/12 04:27pm

Buying a good truck,new or used is just an option.
I guess I felt since he bought the camper,he might actually like it.
No matter what he does,he is going to lose money.
I wish the OP good luck


Posted By: wnjj on 05/27/12 04:33pm

tamaratrav wrote:

Next option is to explore the Better Business Bureau, Oregon DMV/DOJ - on the issue of a licensed RV dealer, seeing the truck, knowning the GVWR numbers, and providing the info that the camper will be fine, and then installing it on the truck.

It seems odd, legally, that an RV dealer can issue a state license for the RV, and install it on a state licenced rig, knowing the legality of the GVWR number and the camper weight number.

Caveat Emptor.


Oh great. Go complain to the "authorities" about your mistake. We don't need any more rules/laws, particularly in this state. What's wrong with individuals taking responsibility for themseleves? Is freedom of choice really that bad? We don't need any more "not to be used as a step" stickers. We're dumb enough as a society already.

--off my soapbox now


Posted By: mockturtle on 05/27/12 04:42pm

If it can't be worked out, at least your Tundra should be easy to sell. Then you can buy a good used 3/4 ton HD truck. The way I see it, your only alternative is to sell your new camper.

Remember, you can't trust what the salesman tells you. You need to do your own research and calculations.


2015 Tiger Bengal TX
Chevy 3500HD, V8



Posted By: BradW on 05/27/12 04:43pm

You know, that might just be the largest truck camper ever hauled by a Toyota pick-up.

Got any photos of that behemoth?

You haven't mentioned how it drives/rides with the camper in the bed?

Brad


Wake Up America
1996 Lance 500 and 2006 F-350 PSD 4X4 DRW
Our Truck Camper Photos



Posted By: wcjeep on 05/27/12 04:52pm

It must be your Apache location that would recommend that camper for a Toyota. My local Apache mentioned from the beginning the model you purchased was for 3/4ton trucks. Six Pac might make a model that would fit your Toyota. Six Pac campers are not known for cold weather ability.

Agree with earlier comments directing you to 3/4ton truck. Cost increase over 1/2ton is minimal. 3/4ton means better frame, suspension and brakes. Ford, Chevy or Dodge 3/4ton gasser will easily outperform your Toyota. Do your homework if considering diesel. Some diesel's should have never made it to market. The Ford 7.3l was great. The Ford 6.0l was horrible. The Ford 6.0l costs alot of money to make it reliable. Google it for yourself.


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/27/12 05:24pm

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:06am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: Boatycall on 05/27/12 05:29pm

tamaratrav wrote:

Current plan is to return to dealer,... In research they seem like (and acted like) a reputable business, been around a long time, family owned, 3 locations. The owner also was involved in this sale, and in an inspection after the first camping trip.

Apache Camping Centers - Oregon and Washington.


OK, now my turn to get up on a soap box.

Now I'm really perplexed.

You said the owner handled part of your sale/inspection. Having personally dealt with him myself, I can't imaging he wouldn't have mentioned somewhere along the line you're biting off more than your truck can chew.

I had a situation go bad here in WA with the same dealer, but made EXTREMELY right by the owner in Oregon (I'm going to leave specific names out just to play things safe). He bent over backwards, ate several thousand dollars, and PERSONALLY drove all the way to WA to see me, and make a bad situation right.

When I finally brought my issue to his attention, this man was more concerned about doing the right thing than anything else. He personally took charge of my issue, held the person accountable that caused it, and provided a level of service I've never gotten from any other dealer, camper or otherwise.

I recently inquired about trading back to him my AF 1150, and purchasing another rig from him, a Triple Slide Eagle Cap. Here's the kicker---He told me right up front that my F350 Dually was too small of a truck, and that I needed an F450+.

So, back to my original comment, I'm perplexed.

I'm sticking up for the dealer in this case. If he was involved right from the git-go on your sale, I just can't see him saying "Ah sure, buy my camper, your truck will handle it no problem".

I think there's more to this story.


Posted By: campn4walleye on 05/27/12 05:32pm

It's sad to know that we can't trust the RV dealers. Some folks on here will half jokingly say "if the dealer's mouth is moving, he's lying". But, it's true a lot of the time.

We went to an AF dealer who said that we could easily carry a 911 on our 3500 SRW, just add air bags.

As we researched EVERYTHING...(I drove everyone here crazy with all my questions), we found that we would be 1100 lbs over the gross vehicle weight! We even proved to the dealer that his wts were wrong. We made him weigh it as it was, then added 800 lbs for us and the necessary gear. He was flabbergasted. He really was adament that his TC weighed what the catalog said it weighed. He ended up giving us our downpayment back, until we could decide what to do.

Our solution: a new 2012 Dodge 3500 DRW and a new Adventurer 910FBS. We have peace of mind, and are completely within all weight standards. It hauls like a dream. We weigh in at just over 4200 lbs wet.

I hope that you can get things worked out so that you enjoy camping safely and comfortably. My advice is to read every piece of info on this TC forum and pick a couple of smart folks on here and PM them for more detailed info and advice. I've made some gret friends on here who I can count on to give me the right answer. Good luck.


2011 Adventurer 910FBS,Torklift tie downs,Fastguns & Wobbl-stopprs
2012 Dodge 3500 DRW 6.7L CTD, 4x4, LB,CC,6 speed auto,3.73 axle, General 17" on/off road
2008 Lund 1825 Explorer Sport,115 Merc,9.9 kicker,Torklift Super Hitch,42" Supertruss
USAF ret E-9&E-7


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/27/12 05:49pm

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:06am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/27/12 05:58pm

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* This post was last edited 07/21/12 01:07am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: campn4walleye on 05/27/12 06:04pm

keep us posted on this. If anything, it may eduacate another new member and decrease the chances of this happening to another unsuspecting soul.

I don't mean to beat a dead horse as it's a little late now, but read everything on truck camper university and look at the articles on truckcampermagazine.com


Posted By: Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli on 05/27/12 06:19pm

Good Lord!
It's a no brainer that the camper is way too big for that truck.

What was the dealer smoking?
Your center of gravity is way behind the rear wheels and the rears are holding a majority of the weight that is not being distributed to the front wheels.
If I was the dealer, and an honest person, I'd have said no, stop, as soon as I saw your truck trying to load that TC.
Hope you can come to a deal or get an F-350.
J


Camper Jeff and Kelli's Blog!

A CLOSED MOUTH GATHERS NO FEET!



Posted By: Photomike on 05/27/12 06:44pm

Seeing the picture there is something wrong with this - either we are being played or the dealer should be charged with endangering others on the road as this sure does not look even close to being right.


Posted By: westernrvparkowner on 05/27/12 07:20pm

Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli wrote:

Good Lord!
It's a no brainer that the camper is way too big for that truck.

What was the dealer smoking?
Your center of gravity is way behind the rear wheels and the rears are holding a majority of the weight that is not being distributed to the front wheels.
If I was the dealer, and an honest person, I'd have said no, stop, as soon as I saw your truck trying to load that TC.
Hope you can come to a deal or get an F-350.
J
Something doesn't look right in river city. Did the dealer actually install the camper? It appears the camper body is 6 inches above the rails. It also doesn't look like the truck squatting very much. Are we sure this isn't a photoshop special?

* This post was edited 05/27/12 07:29pm by westernrvparkowner *


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/27/12 07:30pm

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* This post was last edited 07/21/12 01:07am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/27/12 07:35pm

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* This post was last edited 07/21/12 01:08am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: ISBRAM on 05/27/12 07:44pm

If your stuck on the hook for a loan on that camper, you need a bigger truck. I don't see any other way unless the dealer will take it back.


'99 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins. Roadmaster Anti Sway Bars, Air lift 5000, Stableloads, Bilstein's,19.5 Vision Wheels, 245/70R19.5 Sumitomo ST918
'11 Hallmark Cuchara XL 9.5
If you see me camped someplace stop and say hi, I've always got an extra ice cold beer.



Posted By: whizbang on 05/27/12 07:46pm

The older "cheap" looks like it fits the truck, but actually overloads the truck. The new camper is much, much larger. Therefore, more overload.

I agree with the other replies, you need to get a bigger truck or a smaller camper.

Perhaps, rather than return the camper, you can get the dealer to exchange it for a smaller one.

If you can exchange it, and you intend to keep the Toyota, get the smallest camper and go easy on the options. Your new 850 has the north-south extended cab-over. The extended cab-over weighs a ton. Heck, the options on your 850sd added 700# to a 1000# camper. Realistically, you need a 1000# camper (or lighter. See Four Wheel Camper pop-ups).

If your replacement camper doesn't "look" like the old cheap camper, it's too big.


Whizbang
2010 F150 with 1994 Jayco Sportster 7ft Pop-up
http://www.raincityhome.com/RAWH/index.htm



Posted By: jimh425 on 05/27/12 07:50pm

Huh, PastTime says that's the right size for a short bed 4 door. I doubt it, but that's who (PastTime) I'd talk to Tuesday.


'10 Ford F-450, 6.4, 4.30, 4x4, 14,500 GVWR. '06 Host Rainer 950 Dbl Slide, Torklift Talon tiedowns, Glow Steps, and Fastguns. Firestone Air Bags, Hankook DH-01 225/19.5 Fs, Curt front hitch, Energy Suspension bump stops.



Posted By: jmtandem on 05/27/12 09:10pm

Quote:

I'm sticking up for the dealer in this case. If he was involved right from the git-go on your sale, I just can't see him saying "Ah sure, buy my camper, your truck will handle it no problem".

I think there's more to this story.


Agreed! Just take a look at the title to this thread. "Dealer sold me an overweight camper". Campers are not overweight, underweight or just the right weight. They weigh what they weigh. The problem is not the camper being overweight, it is the truck being under payload capable.

Last month I spoke with Harold at Apache about acquiring an AF 1150 dry bath and my first contact with him was on the phone. Within a minute he was asking about what truck I had, what 'extra' suspension stuff I had on the truck and what kind of camper tie downs I planned to use. That was all before we got around to price and availability. I cannot think that Apache's folks did not notice the small truck and large camper as it was being loaded on the Tundra. Something isn't quite right here.

* This post was edited 05/27/12 09:18pm by jmtandem *


Posted By: bka0721 on 05/27/12 09:19pm

I want to say thank you, tamaratrav, for being a good sport about this dilemma you now find yourself in. I have seen similar situations on this forum, but must say this is the first time I have seen a too large of a truck camper on a Toyota. Anytime I hear of a Truck Camper on a ½ ton or smaller pickup, it gets my attention. There are people that are on this forum that have a ½ ton truck on smaller mated with a Truck Camper and are doing very well. It can be done, with the right equipment and preparation and sometimes people just are lucky and find it out on their own or a mentor. Too often we encounter people, like you, in this same situation and they come here wanting to hear what they want to hear and then cop an attitude and then the wall falls down on them and they don’t like it and we never hear from them again. I must say, you have shown a great attitude. The forum has responded as well. Shocked? Yes. But some of us can get pretty tough on those that don’t want to hear something different than their own opinion. It becomes pretty clear why they now find themselves in this predicament.

For me, I believe you and that you might have had the “red mist” clouding your eyes and sound judgment. You should have seen me driving out of my Lance Truck Camper dealership, after I had my dealer install my camper the way I had directed them to. A lot of people were watching, as I drove away. It took a few miles and days of adjusting and now I can go down many a dirt road that others would turn back. Preparation and the right equipment helps.

Also, the driver is always responsible for the safe operation of the vehicle they are operating, even commercial truck, city buses, it’s the driver that gets the ticket and could ultimately injure themselves or others by the operation of the vehicle. Then it comes down to who shares in the blame, but the driver will always be at the front of the line, if they put the key in, started the truck and drove it on a public road.

I would park the truck and not drive again, until you remove the camper, preferably in your driveway. I ride a motorcycle and thank you, if you do.

Keep us updated on your next move and final outcome. I am sure many of us will be willing to help you when you get ready to start again.

bryan

Smaller trucks and smaller truck campers can be successfully done;







Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/27/12 09:20pm

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* This post was last edited 07/21/12 01:08am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/27/12 09:28pm

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:09am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: jmtandem on 05/27/12 10:07pm

Quote:

jmtandem - you are correct, the truck is underweight.

they sold me a camper that is overweight for the truck.

and you have the correct H. see photos.

and it was installed at the RV dealer.




tamaratrav,

Nobody here is debating that you have a real problem. How you got there is probably not as important as how you will fix it. I think most will agree (including Toyota) that the Tundra is more capable as a TT hauler than a truck camper platform. As previously mentioned I would see if Apache would work a TT into your situation, take the camper back, or as mentioned prior you find a bigger truck if you love the camper. At least you are doing the right thing by addressing the problem and not driving the truck and camper. I think we all hope it works out for you. Keep us posted on the outcome.

As I mentioned in my post I am looking for a new AF 1150 or a Lance 1191 and to that end spent a lot of time on the internet looking for a reasonably close dealer with a good reputation. I spent time on PM's here asking those with AF's in Oregon and Washington about Apache and even called Northwood Manufacturing (Arctic Fox) and discussed their assessment of Apache being an 'stand up' reputable dealer. I found no negative comments about Apache.


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/27/12 10:58pm

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* This post was last edited 07/21/12 01:09am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: Snow River TC on 05/27/12 11:43pm

Before i bought my first camper i did not know what a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck was. It is easy to see how people fall into this trap. IMO the dealer should have told him the truck was inadequate, or should not be selling campers.


Posted By: wintersun on 05/28/12 01:07am

First you need to decide whether to change the truck or the camper as one has to go. Probably easier to change the truck and less expensive to change the camper.

From my own research any camper that will fit on a 1/2 ton truck is going to be one without a head/bath. A Six-Pac as mentioned or a number of popup campers will work very well with your Tundra. As for buying a new truck that is the most expensive option and not one I would recommend.

You can elect to talk to an attorney and see whether or not you have a case that you are likely to win and you can find out how much it will cost you up front in attorney fees and how long it will take to get a settlement should you win. In general only the attorneys win in most cases.

Another option is to go to the dealer and ask for your money back less any direct expenses they have incurred. If they refuse you can let them know you will be publicizing their lack of integrity all around the local area and on the Web. If the dealer values his reputation he will want to work something out with you. But I would pay for an hour of an attorney's time before you talk to the dealer and work out a strategy.

I bought a dealer modified half-ton 4x4 truck in the mid-1970's that had significant safety problems and I sued the dealer and won. So it can be done.


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/28/12 01:10am

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:09am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: sabconsulting on 05/28/12 03:33am

I've just seen your picture - that looks so wrong! Probably because it sits up so high above the cab and has a long north / south bed - though at least that probably helps balance the centre of gravity a bit

It certainly sounds very wrong if you walked into that dealer saying "my current camper seems to heavy for my truck, I need a lighter one" - then you end up coming out with an even bigger camper! But I know how judgement can be clouded when standing there in front of a convincing salesman (who keeps reassuring you it will be fine) looking at a shiny new camper. Like many a salesman under pressure to hit targets he may deceiving himself too - telling himself - "yeh, the paperwork says it is OK, so I'm just doing my job, and I've got to make this sale or I won't get my bonus".

Before you go any further with this you probably want to think about what your long term goal is, so you can aim for the right outcome now. My fear is that even if the dealer takes the camper back and sells you a smaller one you might be back on the forum in 6 months with concerns about your camper being too small, but still quite heavy and having spent a lot of money modifying the truck etc. So now is the time to decide what you really want.

Since you have had a go using the old camper, and now this new one you have at least satisfied yourself that you want a truck camper, and probably the experience with this new one will have told you whether you think you like its internal size / level of luxury compared to a very small one.

Hence it might be you decide you do really like this size of camper, and wouldn't want something smaller / lighter - in which case you really need to think about upgrading to at least a 3/4 ton truck and get the right truck / camper combination (even if it is a 2nd hand truck).

Part of that decision is also thinking very carefully about the weight and asking questions here about long bed vs. short bed, double cab, gasoline versus diesel etc. Remember that the dry weight advertised is the weight without any options you might have (and may be wrong in any case) and certainly without you and passengers and a whole tank full or water and propane tanks, tools, bikes, chairs, awnings, etc. My camper lists a dry weight of 1400lbs, but I reckon I am now at or even over my 2500lb payload when travelling - that shows how much you need to think about it.

If you decide you do want that size of camper then could think about how you negotiate with the dealer to get you heading in your desired direction - i.e. they won't want to refund you and lose out on the deal (especially if legal action is involved), so maybe there is something they could give you to help towards whatever set-up you end up with. Think about stuff that would cost you a lot of money retail, but wouldn't cost them much wholesale (e.g. what might cost you $1000 normally might only show up as a cost to them of $200 plus some man hours they can lose, hence easier for them to give this away than giving you $1000 cash which shows up on their bottom line).

Good luck.

Steve.


'07 Ford Ranger XLT Supercab diesel + '91 Shadow Cruiser - Sky Cruiser 1
'92 Suzuki Samurai 4x4 1.6
'09 Fiat Panda 1.2
'10 Citroen DS3 1.6 turbo



Posted By: Crabbypatty on 05/28/12 05:08am

A salesmans job is to sell, make money and never see you again. Your job is to be skeptical and not sign until it feels right. This is to common a story in the industry and I see overloaded rigs pulling way to big campers on the road all the time. On just about everytrip on I95 in the east, we even see the same overloaded rigs crashed. Probably the only thing you can do if the dealer will not take the rig back is sue them, embaress them publically until they cave in and help you, or lick your wounds and trade up to a bigger truck. Next time get on RV net and ask for advice before you buy something. The people on this site have saved my bacon many times on just about everything rv. Sorry to hear your story.

Happy Trails


John, Lisa & Tara
2001 2500LT Suburban 8.1L 4x4 Autoride K/N, Reese 12klb w/dual cam, Prodigy, Sunny Brook Sunset Creek 298 BH, Trojan 125's, Honda EU3000, Dish TV, Xantrax Pure Sine 2000, Wilson Cellular Ant & Amp, L.I.B.B.A. #1747, Wireless WiFi,



Posted By: silversand on 05/28/12 05:59am

Quote:

I would park the truck and not drive again, until you remove the camper, preferably in your driveway. I ride a motorcycle and thank you, if you do.


This advice I would follow immediately. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at the pictures and determine that something is very, very, very wrong.

All the many (not all) Forum member semantics aside, Sabconsulting's advice sounds like an excellent plan to proceed by.

Your Toyota appears to be fully depreciated by this juncture, so this would be the component I would sell ASAP (you won't take much of a loss if any), to acquire the appropriate truck perhaps with little additional cash outlay. Oh, before I forget: remove the camper tiedowns from the truck before you sell it.

Good luck,
Silver-


Silver
2004 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 4x4 6.0L Ext/LB Tow Package 4L80E Michelin AT2s| Outfitter Caribou


Posted By: nycsteve on 05/28/12 07:47am

1775 pounds for a TC is not all that heavy considering. Dump the Toyota and get a 250 or 350 American truck. To me thats seems the best option at this point. Shop carefully and hopefully you wont get hurt $$-wise. Soon this will be behind you and you will out there enjoying camping in your new rig.






Posted By: BradW on 05/28/12 07:49am

silversand wrote:

Your Toyota appears to be fully depreciated by this juncture, so this would be the component I would sell ASAP (you won't take much of a loss if any), to acquire the appropriate truck perhaps with little additional cash outlay.


Sixteen years ago, we had to sell our Toyata 4X4 to get the truck we needed to haul the truck camper we wanted and that is probably what you will end up doing. An ethical TC dealer whould have told you that up front.

Brad


Posted By: John & Angela on 05/28/12 08:12am

Are salespersons licensed in your State. If so there may be some recourse as a training course is required in States or provinces where a license is required. EG they should have known how to figure it out.

The numbers do seem fairly askew so its more than just "a stretch". Where we are we have to use GVWR minus net weight to come up with the payload but from what I hear on this forum many states allow combined axle weight rating as opposed to Gross vehicle weight rating. See if thats what they used and maybe that will explain at least some of the overage. Add up the two axle weight ratings and then subtract the netweight. (Just a guess here)

Just so you know you would be unloading that camper on the side of the road at some point after entering BC. During the tourist season they have road side checks where they check for everything from safety chains, breakaway devices, batteries (for the breakaway devices) and yes portable scales for weighing axles. Generally they are looking for things that "don't look right". The problem is they make you unload right there and then and then you have to find someone with a proper sized truck to come pick up your camper for you. With your camper that would not be a problem but a little more of a challenge for someone with an AF 1150 on a SRW 1 ton truck with its tail draggin.

Anyway, I wish you well in your quest to get this resolved. Keep your chin up, it'll all work out in the end. Good on ya for being concerned about the saftety situation.

* This post was edited 05/28/12 08:25am by John & Angela *


2003 Revolution 40C Class A. 2002 Vanguard 22 foot Class C. Diesel smart car as a Toad on a smart car trailer or pulling a 2009 Timeout Tent Trailer.

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take but rather by the moments that take our breath away.


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/28/12 08:28am

I would point blank tell them to take their camper back and fully refund the money. Then go buy a proper camper hauling truck and find another dealer to buy another camper from. That is gross negligence on the part of that dealer to sell you that camper for that truck. Their dealer privilege to license RV's for customers should be pulled by the State.


05E350 6.0PSD
97F350DRW 7.3PSD 4x4 4.10 11' flatbed
98Ranger
69Bronco ATC250R CR500
20' BigTex flatbed carhauler
Callen Camper

92F350 CrewCab 4x4 351/C6
B&W TurnoverBall, Curt Magnum V
HD Springs Bilsteins,
285/75-16E BFG AT on 16x8 Stocktons
4.56's & LockRite rear


Posted By: jmtandem on 05/28/12 08:58am

Quote:

I would point blank tell them to take their camper back and fully refund the money. Then go buy a proper camper hauling truck and find another dealer to buy another camper from. That is gross negligence on the part of that dealer to sell you that camper for that truck. Their dealer privilege to license RV's for customers should be pulled by the State.


While the pics are not complementary to a well mated truck and camper, it would be interesting to be able to understand the dealer's side of this story. They sell many truck campers a year. And this is the first time something like this happens?

* This post was edited 05/28/12 09:08am by jmtandem *


Posted By: sleepy on 05/28/12 09:26am

Just reading the title of this thread gives me ideas...

Janet and I enjoy eating in good resturants... we often listen to the wait staff... if the server tells us about a fantastic "shrimp scampi" made with shrimp, pasta, garlic, butter and cheese... but fails to warn me about the extremely high colesteral... should I with hold her tip... or get a lawyer? Should I expect the server to look me over and refuse to sell me the shrimp scampi?

When I'm asked "Do you want to super size that?" and then says, "It's our very best deal!" Is it his falt that I'm fat and about to have a heart attack"

Or a saleswoman convinces me that time-shares are a good deal.... I'd be stuck holding the bag for life... all I wanted was the three free nights and didn't mind listening to her sales pitch.

Oops!... I think that maybe its my responsibility to learn as much as possible about my needs and limitations before I order a meal or a truck camper... or a lifelong obligation. It's my fault when I do stupid things and I have to pay the consequences. After all I'm an adult now.

best of luck...

sleepy


2003 Lance 1161,/slideout/AGM batteries/255W Solar/propane generator/Sat dish/2 Fantastic Fans/AC/winter pkg
AirFoil, Trimetric, LED lights, Platcat vent heat

2003GMC K3500 LT/Crewcab/duramax diesel/allison/dually/4x4/OnStar/front reciever mounted spare


Posted By: big whitey on 05/28/12 09:26am

lets cut to the chase here and give you the benefit of the doubt and say that the facts as you have presented them are 100% accurate.to put it mildly you made a very foolish decision and used absolutely NO COMMON SENSE.how anyone could/would think a combo like yours was ok is in a word UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

that said the unscrupolus(sp) business practices of the dealer to take advantage of your lack of knowledge and common sense is UNCONSCIENABLE!!!!!

here is how i think the matter should be resolved:

1.dealer should offer you a full refund minus the tie downs (stupid tax has to be paid)

2.dealer should apologize for taking advantage of your ignorance.

3.dealer should implement or revisit his mission statement to include honesty and integrity.

4.and not to leave you out,you should forget buying a TC for the foreseable future until you have had adequate time to do your homework which will allow you to make intelligent informed decisions about the TC of your dreams.


my intention was not to be harsh or mean spirited in any way,hope you don't take it that way.just stating my thoughts and opinions which is what you do on a forum like this.

get out there and do your homework and you will be out here amongst the rest of us before you know it.good luck in cleaning up this matter.

* This post was edited 05/28/12 09:58am by big whitey *


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/28/12 09:40am

jmtandem wrote:

Quote:

I would point blank tell them to take their camper back and fully refund the money. Then go buy a proper camper hauling truck and find another dealer to buy another camper from. That is gross negligence on the part of that dealer to sell you that camper for that truck. Their dealer privilege to license RV's for customers should be pulled by the State.
While the pics are not complementary to a well mated truck and camper, it would be interesting to be able to understand the dealer's side of this story. They sell many truck campers a year. And this is the first time something like this happens?
Going by this dealer's apparent attitude toward this customer's problem, I would say this is likely NOT the first, or last, time this has happened at that dealer. Just because it has happened before though, doesn't mean it's not a problem!

I think a trip to a certified truck scale and then presenting the scale ticket, together with the truck manufacturer's weight rating info, to both the camper finance company and the finance company's insurance company, as well as the truck's insurance company and the dealer's business liability insurance company, may very well result in a sudden change of heart of the dealer and full refund of the camper and, hopefully, no more similar instances of this in the future for that dealer. Insurance companies get real nervous when their insureds are engaging in grossly negligent business practice....


Posted By: jimh425 on 05/28/12 10:06am

I know some people have been pretty brutal, but some of the people here are either experts or think they are. In any case, your truck is not a capable platform for a TC even if you had got a slightly shorter one unless you went with a super light weighweight popup shell.

There's a saying here...find the camper you want and then go find the truck for it. In that regard, you are following normal procedure except that you tried it on your existing truck. BTW, I owned a truck before my current one, and bought my current one specifically after deciding what camper I thought I wanted.

In my case, I bought the highest payload SRW of the time with diesel, long bed, and super cab and 4x4. I needed a SRW for work, and needed a 4x4 for winter and offroad. I bought a diesel because I wanted it. I bought a long bed to put more weight in front of the rear axle and to have a slightly longer camper. I bought a supercab instead of crewcab to have a bit more carrying capacity, smaller turning radius, and vehicle balance. I kind of regret the diesel choice...not that anything is wrong with it, but that I haven't really needed it.

Bite the bullet and buy a bigger truck. I'd buy a supercab, long bed, 1 ton. There are a lot of them on the market. I've got to believe that you should be able to essentially trade even and then get this problem behind you.


Posted By: wnjj on 05/28/12 10:08am

big whitey wrote:

1.dealer should offer you a full refund minus the tie downs (stupid tax has to be paid)


OP is in Oregon, so at least there's no tax. There is title and reg for ~$150.


Posted By: Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli on 05/27/12 06:48pm

I was thinking about this a little more. Imagine the porpoising situations that could happen to you with this setup. You could easily lose control of your truck!


Posted By: AKPWDR8 on 05/27/12 07:09pm

I would rename this thread after seeing the picture, something besides Dealer sold me overweight camper? That's like saying, "Spoons made me fat " what type of legal action can I take. Maybe it's the red,white,blue coming out of me on Memorial Day weekend, but it appears the proper research wasn't accomplished before the purchase.


2011 Chev. 2500 HD Duramax CCSB
2012 Lance 825


Posted By: SooperDaddy on 05/27/12 07:17pm

From Apache Campers website-2012 Pastime 850SD "Lightweight camper for full size trucks including 1/2 ton. Base dry weight of 1050 Lbs."


Posted By: jimh425 on 05/29/12 12:00pm

mkirsch wrote:

How come this particular 1700+lb TC in a 1/2 ton truck is BAD, but any other one is GOOD?


The OP started with the premise that he wasn't happy! Maybe you missed that.


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/28/12 10:37am

.

* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:10am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: Camper_Jeff_&_Kelli on 05/28/12 10:56am

I'm siding on the sell the Toyota and get an F-250/350 side.
There are more lawyers out there than there are squares of tissue on a double roll of TP, ready and willing to litigate your case and take your money. I figure if you start lawyering up, it will only get more costly than to do what should have been done in the first place which is to get a suitable truck. Lose the truck and keep the camper. As stated earlier, the truck value is at bottom and the camper value is at it's top. Minimize your loss. Don't think of it as a loss either because you'll only be doing what you should have already done which is to get a proper size truck for your new larger camper.
IN SHORT, sell and get a proper truck and you will have actually lost nothing, just done what you should have in the first place. Hope you feel better and get a truck.
Good luck with everything.
J


Posted By: jmtandem on 05/28/12 11:09am

Quote:

Going by this dealer's apparent attitude toward this customer's problem, I would say this is likely NOT the first, or last, time this has happened at that dealer. Just because it has happened before though, doesn't mean it's not a problem!



There are three things fascinating about this story apart from any reference to a good or bad dealer. First is the fact the OP did not due diligence here on RV.net prior to purchase; yet came here to complain after the sale. Second is the fact that the OP bought the camper he wanted or he would not have purchased it. We normally do not purchase what we do not want. And he had to know somewhere along the way that there are heavy and light weight campers as I am sure he travels on the roads and sees that most campers are carried by far more truck than he has. He had to have been a little bit observant to the visual truck/camper 'fit' of all the other campers on the roads and how his 'fit' did not look anything like all the others he has seen. And lastly, his title to this thread that references the dealer is at fault for selling him an overweight camper (no such thing as an overweight camper) and what legal action is available. Why bring into this legal action and why blame any dealer for selling him what he wanted to purchase? Nothing turns off people faster than any reference to legal action. He has yet to even chat with the dealer about possible solutons, yet in the title is the dreaded legal action mention. If I was the RV dealer I would trot the OP over to the nearest Ford, Chevy or Dodge dealer to get a bigger truck as he wanted that camper bad enough to purchase it on a ten year loan and the Toyota simply won't cut it. In fairness to the OP he is going to the wrong dealer to fix this issue.

In our society we are never wrong. It is always somebody elses fault if things don't go well. When will we take responsibility for our actions and understand we have some responsibility for our actions when things go wrong?


Posted By: Kip81 on 05/28/12 11:20am

Why the OP is wrong in this situation for buying a camper that is to heavy. Dealers need to be held responsible also. If somebody buys a camper or trailer the dealer should have to atleast say, Hey you need a bigger truck.


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/28/12 11:57am

sleepy wrote:

Just reading the title of this thread gives me ideas...

Janet and I enjoy eating in good resturants... we often listen to the wait staff... if the server tells us about a fantastic "shrimp scampi" made with shrimp, pasta, garlic, butter and cheese... but fails to warn me about the extremely high colesteral... should I with hold her tip... or get a lawyer? Should I expect the server to look me over and refuse to sell me the shrimp scampi?

When I'm asked "Do you want to super size that?" and then says, "It's our very best deal!" Is it his falt that I'm fat and about to have a heart attack"

Or a saleswoman convinces me that time-shares are a good deal.... I'd be stuck holding the bag for life... all I wanted was the three free nights and didn't mind listening to her sales pitch.

Oops!... I think that maybe its my responsibility to learn as much as possible about my needs and limitations before I order a meal or a truck camper... or a lifelong obligation. It's my fault when I do stupid things and I have to pay the consequences. After all I'm an adult now.

best of luck...

sleepy
This is also a very good post that I agree with, even if, again, a bit abrasive. However, I disagree that the dealer is completely indemnified here.


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/28/12 11:59am

jimh425 wrote:

I know some people have been pretty brutal, but some of the people here are either experts or think they are. In any case, your truck is not a capable platform for a TC even if you had got a slightly shorter one unless you went with a super light weighweight popup shell.

There's a saying here...find the camper you want and then go find the truck for it. In that regard, you are following normal procedure except that you tried it on your existing truck. BTW, I owned a truck before my current one, and bought my current one specifically after deciding what camper I thought I wanted.

In my case, I bought the highest payload SRW of the time with diesel, long bed, and super cab and 4x4. I needed a SRW for work, and needed a 4x4 for winter and offroad. I bought a diesel because I wanted it. I bought a long bed to put more weight in front of the rear axle and to have a slightly longer camper. I bought a supercab instead of crewcab to have a bit more carrying capacity, smaller turning radius, and vehicle balance. I kind of regret the diesel choice...not that anything is wrong with it, but that I haven't really needed it.

Bite the bullet and buy a bigger truck. I'd buy a supercab, long bed, 1 ton. There are a lot of them on the market. I've got to believe that you should be able to essentially trade even and then get this problem behind you.
That is some very good advice there.


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/28/12 12:00pm

tamaratrav wrote:

Hello - thanks to (most) all for the info today - very much appreciated.

And very interesting on the British Columbia overweight issue... as BC and Western Canada is in future travel plans.

And yes to all about the size of the truck. The domestic 3/4 ton at minimum, extra cab long bed 4x4 is what will at minimum work for either this camper or another one.

Bad part about getting the camper then the truck, is for a bigger truck, we likley we get a wet or dry bath as well.

Also---once my wife had 2 weekends out in this camper...she isnt going back to a small camper...

Current plan is to see what TC dealer has to provide in response. Preference is to start over from scratch on truck and TC.

Our son works at Lithia Motors, so we have an option of employee family discount on new or used.
That is a very good plan.


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/28/12 12:01pm

Kip81 wrote:

Why the OP is wrong in this situation for buying a camper that is to heavy. Dealers need to be held responsible also. If somebody buys a camper or trailer the dealer should have to at least say, Hey you need a bigger truck.
Agreed.


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/28/12 12:06pm

jmtandem wrote:

Quote:

Going by this dealer's apparent attitude toward this customer's problem, I would say this is likely NOT the first, or last, time this has happened at that dealer. Just because it has happened before though, doesn't mean it's not a problem!
There are three things fascinating about this story apart from any reference to a good or bad dealer. First is the fact the OP did not due diligence here on RV.net prior to purchase; yet came here to complain after the sale. Second is the fact that the OP bought the camper he wanted or he would not have purchased it. We normally do not purchase what we do not want. And he had to know somewhere along the way that there are heavy and light weight campers as I am sure he travels on the roads and sees that most campers are carried by far more truck than he has. He had to have been a little bit observant to the visual truck/camper 'fit' of all the other campers on the roads and how his 'fit' did not look anything like all the others he has seen. And lastly, his title to this thread that references the dealer is at fault for selling him an overweight camper (no such thing as an overweight camper) and what legal action is available. Why bring into this legal action and why blame any dealer for selling him what he wanted to purchase? Nothing turns off people faster than any reference to legal action. He has yet to even chat with the dealer about possible solutons, yet in the title is the dreaded legal action mention. If I was the RV dealer I would trot the OP over to the nearest Ford, Chevy or Dodge dealer to get a bigger truck as he wanted that camper bad enough to purchase it on a ten year loan and the Toyota simply won't cut it. In fairness to the OP he is going to the wrong dealer to fix this issue.

In our society we are never wrong. It is always somebody elses fault if things don't go well. When will we take responsibility for our actions and understand we have some responsibility for our actions when things go wrong?
I don't doubt or disagree that the original poster was wrong. I think he knows and admits that by now, going by his latest post.

However, if you read his story, the dealer pushed the larger camper on him, assuring him all would be okay, when in fact, it is obviously not and on many levels. They even argued that his truck should NOT have the smaller camper on it that he went there to buy in the first place and the bigger camper, which he wasn't previously intending to buy, was the correct one for his truck!

That, to me, is completely inexcusable behavior by the dealer!


Posted By: jmtandem on 05/28/12 12:42pm

Quote:

However, if you read his story, the dealer pushed the larger camper on him, assuring him all would be okay, when in fact, it is obviously not and on many levels. They even argued that his truck should NOT have the smaller camper on it that he went there to buy in the first place and the bigger camper, which he wasn't previously intending to buy, was the correct one for his truck!

That, to me, is completely inexcusable behavior by the dealer!



SoCal,

Again, not being able to learn from the dealer why this happened only gives us one side of the story. If you read my post I said clearly that the OP has SOME responsibility, perhaps not all the responsibility. I do agree with you that when the camper was being put on the truck why didn't somebody say something about the truck/camper disparity. Did the dealer really push the bigger camper on the OP? Did the OP lose his voice to say 'no' at a critical time. Not enough questions were asked by the OP as the dealer went through with the deal, perhaps taking some liberty of the OP's lack of knowledge or moving forward with the deal as the OP remained silent about it all. Beyond that it is just the OP's side of the story.

If I was the OP I would file this under 'lessons learned' and go to the big truck store to fix the problem. If, as he says in a very recent post, his wife possibly wants a dry bath camper then I suggest the OP look hard at one ton duallys as most dry bath campers are very heavy. An AF 1150, 992 or a Lance 1181 or 1191 dry bry bath campers are all in the 4000+ pound category before stuff is added and often before options are added as well. They can easily weigh 4500 pounds with water and propane. I guess what I am saying this time the OP needs to decide what camper they want and then get the truck that will get the job done.

I feel for the OP but sometimes it is just better to move on past the problem and get on with life.


Posted By: big whitey on 05/28/12 02:21pm

wnjj wrote:

big whitey wrote:

1.dealer should offer you a full refund minus the tie downs (stupid tax has to be paid)


OP is in Oregon, so at least there's no tax. There is title and reg for ~$150.



stupid tax= the price we humans pay for all the stupid decisions we make.


Posted By: nycsteve on 05/28/12 03:00pm

Kip81 wrote:

Why the OP is wrong in this situation for buying a camper that is to heavy. Dealers need to be held responsible also. If somebody buys a camper or trailer the dealer should have to atleast say, Hey you need a bigger truck.


Unless the dealer put in writing that the Toyota was a match for the camper, there is no legal obligation on the part of the dealer to do ANYTHING. No court will rule otherwise. The OP has 2 options, if he likes the camper, swap the Toyota for a real truck that will handle the camper. If the OP would have bought a differant larger camper if he started off with a bigger truck, then he could approach the dealer and ask for a favorable trade in for a bigger camper and get a real truck to match. Either way he needs a new truck if he wishes to camp in a TC. Or he could put the TC in the yard and use it as a shed or a poolhouse.
A TC is a demanding load for any truck and IMO Toyota pickups are not real trucks, niether is any 150 including the new Ford. You need size to have the more robust frame, brakes,suspension and power train to carry around a 2000# plus non aerodynamic top heavy brick.


Posted By: wnjj on 05/28/12 03:18pm

big whitey wrote:

wnjj wrote:

big whitey wrote:

1.dealer should offer you a full refund minus the tie downs (stupid tax has to be paid)


OP is in Oregon, so at least there's no tax. There is title and reg for ~$150.



stupid tax= the price we humans pay for all the stupid decisions we make.


Got it. Now that you explained it, I think I've heard that one before,


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/28/12 04:01pm

Sounds like now the original poster wants a bigger, dry bath camper. If that is so, he needs get rid of that Toy and buy a 1-TON DUALLY. Then, he will have a truck that can haul the camper he wants.

That means he also needs to force that dealer to take back the camper they never should have sold him in the first place, because his mini truck was completely obviously way, way, way too small, and refund his money.


Posted By: Powerdude on 05/28/12 04:13pm

I can't see the picture(s), so I can't see what all the hubub is about.

It would not be the first time somebody put an extra ~1000 lbs on a truck.

Some dealer told me that a Lance 1191 could be put on a F250 longbed, when it would have overloaded the truck by about ~1500 lbs.

Said that it just needed airbags...

Riiiight...


Posted By: sleepy on 05/28/12 04:32pm

Do you really think that anyone is going to take the loss incured when a new camper becomes used?

The OP NOW owns a used truck camper... slightly used, but used.

We all know that once a vehicle or truck camper leaves the sales lot it's value goes down in a hurry. Who takes that hit?

Get over it, it's not going to happen.

Bashing the dealer won't help the OP and it won't hurt the dealer. There are such a few truck camper dealers that if you are in the market you will deal with who ever has the model you want in stock.

Over the years I have seen cases of buyers remorse... they bought a truck camper and then decided they either wanted a different one or maybe decided they didn't want a truck camper at all.

A few have systematically torn their camper up... posting pictures daily as the camper desinagrated and blaming it on the construction... all the time bashing the dealer or the camper manufacturer (think Smoothtop, I can name others)


OP... you made the deal, you signed the papers, you used the camper, it's yours.... and it is your responsibility to solve your problem(so... not the dealer, not the manufacturer, not Toyota.

BTW... is their a written statement in the manual or in the glove department, or on the door jamb, sayin "Do not use for slide in truck campers" or something to that effect, I have see statements like this in some trucks.

I personally would never try to put any TC on a cute little grocery getter... but some try!


Posted By: jmtandem on 05/28/12 05:13pm

Quote:

That means he also needs to force that dealer to take back the camper they never should have sold him in the first place, because his mini truck was completely obviously way, way, way too small, and refund his money.



Wow, this is all over the place. I think I recall you saying in a previous post to find a different dealer to buy a camper from. Now you suggest returning to the same dealer. What changed?

I think what changed was your repsonse to the OP's later comments about larger dry bath campers. To that end his comments about being pushed into buying a larger camper than he intended to purchase might have been his asking Apache to recommend the largest camper the Tundra can hold, and they did.

Again, it would be interesting to get the dealers perception on what the OP says was being pushed into the larger camper, apparently NOT against the OP's will.

SoCal, I am confident you have been on these forums long enough to recall many, perhaps hundred of folks that have upgraded their RV to a bigger and heavier fifth wheel, toyhauler, travel trailer or truck camper and in all cases the OP, the new and proud owner of the bigger RV, goes out and gets the tow vehicle that now works with the new RV as the old tow vehicle doesn't cut it anymore. And how many blame the RV dealer for selling them a newer, nicer, bigger RV that now needs a newer bigger truck? I can recall of none that complained the dealer sold them an overweight or overlength RV that now requires a bigger truck. Apache has thousands of happy customers, one negative poster that has not given Apache time to rectify the problem before complaining about the deal here will not hurt the dealer at all. In cards there is a time to 'hold em' and a time to 'fold em'. Guess what time it is for the OP now? Accept the 'stupid' tax and move on.

* This post was edited 05/28/12 05:24pm by jmtandem *


Posted By: bigdogger on 05/28/12 05:51pm

I wonder how many people would be attacking the dealer if this thread was "Dealer refused to sell me what I wanted!"? Home depot doesn't question me when I buy sheet rock screws and stair hangers. They don't ask if I am a licensed electrician if I buy a hundred feet of Romex. They don't refuse to sell me drain cleaner until I prove I have safety glasses and rubber gloves. It is the buyer's responsibility to be sure what they are buying is compatible with what they are attempting to do. How little backbone did the buyer have if now they are saying the dealer pushed them into it etc.


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/28/12 05:51pm

jmtandem wrote:

Quote:

That means he also needs to force that dealer to take back the camper they never should have sold him in the first place, because his mini truck was completely obviously way, way, way too small, and refund his money.



Wow, this is all over the place. I think I recall you saying in a previous post to find a different dealer to buy a camper from. Now you suggest returning to the same dealer. What changed?
No, I'm saying to return the camper he bought back to the dealer he bought it from, if he wants a different camper. Then buy the truck that will carry the camper he wants. Then go to a different dealer and buy the camper he wants and put it on that new to him, proper truck for the job.

If he wants the camper he bought, then just buy the right truck to haul it and be done with it.


Posted By: jmtandem on 05/28/12 06:26pm

Quote:

If he wants the camper he bought, then just buy the right truck to haul it and be done with it.


Nine pages and we get back to the only real solution to the problem. As I stated earlier how the OP got into this situation is largely irrevelent; how he gets out of it is what is important.


Posted By: kcabpilot on 05/28/12 06:35pm

Well it happened to me back in 1994, though not as egregious as this example. A well known, established Lance Dealer sold us a 990, which weighs 3280 wet according to the sticker, installed it on our 1978 F250 Camper Special and sent us on our merry way. I knew pretty much right away that it was a bit much for our truck but after a few modifications such as bigger tires, airbags and overload perches it actually did okay despite being an estimated 1,000 lbs over it's tagged rating.

I'm not trying to relate this to the OP's situation nor am I suggesting he follow my lead but we used this truck camper combo for 14 years. Still, I couldn't help but notice from day one that every picture of a Lance 990 in the brochures always showed it on a dually so eventually when the F250 got so tired it was time to replace it I got a '97 F350 DRW and yes - it made a world of difference.

My point here is that I think this issue of dealers selling you a camper that is too big for your truck is more common than you might think and has been going on for a long time.



* This post was edited 05/28/12 08:11pm by an administrator/moderator *


1994 Lance 990 on 1997 F350 PSD Dually "Rhino Haunches"


Posted By: Steve1950 on 05/28/12 06:36pm

In 2004 have bought a popup camper from this dealer. In 2008 I researched truck campers at this dealer. I didn't buy a camper because I didn't think my 3/4 ton GMC had enough capacity. Since 2003 I have talked to several salesmen and women from this dealer at local rv shows in Portland and Salem. I find something missing from this whole story. It just doesn't add up to my experience. I never had any misgivings about this dealer. I didn't really care for one salesman and he is the one op mentioned in an early post, so I think some sales pressure may be involved. Over the years many people have realized they have a too small tow vehicle after getting a new rv. This is one more example, very noticeable because in sits in the pickup box. Original poster needs a new vehicle. My cousin bought a new Chevy 1/2 ton in 1995, there was a sticker in the glove box stating no campers. I wonder if Toyota has a sticker somewhere, maybe the owner manual?


00 GMC Sierra 2500 4x4
13 Holiday Rambler Aluma-Lite Ultra Edition 207-S


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/28/12 07:04pm

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:10am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: Boatycall on 05/28/12 07:28pm

sleepy wrote:

The OP NOW owns a used truck camper... slightly used, but used.

OP... you made the deal, you signed the papers, you used the camper, it's yours.... and it is your responsibility to solve your problem(so... not the dealer, not the manufacturer, not Toyota.)

I personally would never try to put any TC on a cute little grocery getter... but some try!


At the risk of offending some people here, I couldn't agree more.

This topic is becoming utter nonsense. BLAME THE DEALER! BLAME THE DIRTY GREEDY DEALER!

Everyone here is vilifying this dealer. I personally dealt with the owner, and I know for a fact he would not do this unless insisted upon by the customer.

Just like Chet said before---
Do you blame girl behind the counter for asking "Would you like to supersize that" just before your heart attack??


OP, you should or could have---
1-- Done your homework.
2-- Picked a different camper.
3-- Walked away.
4-- Said no.
5-- Went to another dealer
6-- Asked to load it on your truck BEFORE signing papers.
7-- Turned around IMMEDIATELY once you drove off the lot, not used it twice then changed your mind, aka, have buyers remorse.
8-- Knew you would need a larger truck
9-- Known that the first three letters in your truck are TOY
10-- Looked at and read the Camper Certificate that Toyota issued with the truck. Oh wait, there isn't one for Toyotas.


There is NO legal recourse for this, and quite frankly, I'm tired of hearing people making stupid decisions and letting blood sucking lawyers blame anyone but themselves for it.

This is a good, reputable dealer, in business for 3 decades for a reason.

Here's what I see happening--
OP walks on the lot looking for what his truck can handle.
Happens to see a larger nicer one and goes all wide-eyed.
Dealer says, "Your truck can't handle that without a lot of upgrades, and even then I wouldn't do it"--I KNOW THIS DEALER WOULD SAY THIS, BECAUSE THEY SAID IT TO ME AND I HAVE A FRICKIN DUALLY!!
OP Says, "It's ok, I'll do the upgrades and it will be fine".
Dealer says, "Ok, if you say so... It's your truck."


I'm tired of this dealer being made guilty when I know from personal experience THEY would not have pushed HIM into it, I think it's the OTHER WAY AROUND.


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/28/12 08:07pm

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:11am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/28/12 08:33pm

I still maintain, from the original poster's posts, if they are to be believed, that the dealer is the one primarily at fault for selling him that camper that was obviously and grossly too heavy for his truck, which they had to have known. The dealer are supposed to be reasonably knowlegeable on the subject. The original poster didn't know anything, but even he was skeptical. The dealer was not skeptical at all and in fact recommended he do it. He trusted them to be the experts and trusted their opinion.

I say the above and I am about the last person you will ever meet to ever be construed as a lawyer-up, blame the other guy kind of person. I firmly believe in taking my own lumps, whenever deserved. It is the dealer who deserves to take the lumps, in this instance, though the customer is at least somewhat also at fault, mostly being uninformed on his own. I'll call that ignorance. The dealer, however, was not ignorant. They were just a bunch of morons, knowing the truth, but doing the opposite of what was right.

I do agree though, that after using the camper for 2 trips, it is now a used camper and will not be able to be returned to the dealer for a refund. That should have happened within a few days after buying it, and before taking any camping trips in it. At this time, it is not reasonable to expect the dealer to take it back as a return for refund. That is the customer's fault at this point, for going ahead and using the camper anyways, after he knew it was not right for his truck.


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/28/12 08:40pm

jmtandem wrote:

Quote:

If he wants the camper he bought, then just buy the right truck to haul it and be done with it.


Nine pages and we get back to the only real solution to the problem. As I stated earlier how the OP got into this situation is largely irrevelent; how he gets out of it is what is important.
He'll either have to buy another truck to keep the camper, buy another truck to get another camper, keep the truck and get a trailer it can tow, or buy another truck and buy a trailer that truck can tow, or just forget the whole RV thing altogether and use a tent, or stay home.


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/28/12 08:58pm

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:11am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: FreeLanceing on 05/28/12 09:06pm

This post reminds me of an old GF of mine. She shared that every oil change in her Honda x came to over $100. She wanted to know if this was normal. Looking at her recipts each oil change she was sold a new air filter, cabin filter, wiper blades, differential change, etc etc. Every time over $100. Sales people make money selling. Its our job as the consumer to make an informed choice about what we buy.


Posted By: zman-az on 05/29/12 10:31am

This thread is going nowhere until the OP talks to the dealer who sold him the camper. No reason they could not take it back in on a trade and make things right if they truly are fully or partially to blame.

If they don't help out and the OP really feels he was mislead then he could attempt to call the TC mfg and report what happened.

Last option is to take him to court after talking to somebody that knows the law (sorry but I doubt any of us folks on here are lawyers so we should not be giving legal advise). At this point I think you would be better off getting a different truck or sell the TC and move on vs going to court.

As far as call the BBB, they are a joke and a scam. Just another organization to collect money from busiesses while they pay their top employees big bucks. Do a search on the BBB and you will find out they have their problems too.






Posted By: firemedic08 on 05/29/12 10:51am

Im interested in seeing how this turns out. My opinion is he should have done more research ahead of time on weights and what they meant. I made this mistake my self with my first TC and blamed no one but myself. Did a bunch of research to include on here, and then got another camper that i liked/wanted. Lesson learned and im better for it. Of course my mistake was a free bee.


Donnie
1994 Chevy 2500 Extended cab
1980 sunline,





Posted By: mkirsch on 05/29/12 11:02am

I don't get it.

Where is the "I do it and it's Just Fine(tm)" crowd? I KNOW there are guys who load 1700+lb TCs on their 1/2 tons and go on down the road. They are happy as pigs in mud.

How come this particular 1700+lb TC in a 1/2 ton truck is BAD, but any other one is GOOD?


2002 Chevy 3500 DRW/8.1/Allison & 2000 Palomino B1500 popup TC

-Yes, I haul a popup with a dually. No, I don't think I need a dually to haul a popup.


Posted By: Photog101 on 05/28/12 10:18pm

Hell, I think that most of us have made mistakes on making choices at some point in our RVing career. I have built heavy trucks for specific vocations and I have worked on RV's for years, so I should know better than commit my recent mistakes.

I bought an RL 1200 camper and thought that I had done the homework. The weight certificate stated that it weighed 3472, and I added for the Roof A/C, the Generator, the water, the propane, the gear needed, the provisions and our clothing. I came up with 4300# approx. I had weighted my dually and found that I could have a usable load of 4700# and be at 11000#GVW. To my amazement, when I weighed it, I was 600# over GVW. So I dumped water to 1/4 tank, and got it under gross. Am I happy? NO, but I can live with it. Could the truck have handled it, YES.

I also looked at the specs on the length of the T/C and it was supposed to have a 12'floor. It does, but they forgot to say that there is an additional 20" on the overhang for cabinetry and the bath. So I now have a 68" overhang. To add just the hitching would throw me back over the GVW on the truck and there is not any 68"-70" extensions out there. So can I tow with this unit? NO. Am I happy? Not really as it was not what I had originally planned on. Do I use it? You betchum' Red Ryder.

The other mistake that I made was that I recently upgraded to 225/70R19.5 on my dually from 215/85R16 and bought the new tires and rims off the internet. The seller told me that they run 95# in all their tires, but they would be shipped with 35#. I thought that I had done all my homework on tires, and rims, except that when I received the rims, I found that they were only rated at 80# pressure. The tires that I bought were "F" range and supposed to have 95# of pressure. I contacted my local Bridgestone dealer and explained the problem and was told that running 80# was OK, that it just dropped my rating to "E". So when I thought I was getting more safety with "F" rated tires, I only got 150#/tire and rim more than the original tires. Am I happy, NO ... I wanted the added security of better tires. Does it work, YES and there is a plus ... the DW says that it rides much better and I guess it does. If she is happy, I'm happy.

What will I do in the future? Probably get a different truck, but I have to find one that the 1997 camper will fit in. It will probably be a 4500 cab-chassis with a utility/service body or move the whole camper to a gooseneck trailer and get a SRW 3500. Either way, I'll make the best of it.

I have to take all the blame for all of these costly mistakes. Does it keep me from using my unit? NO. Did I learn anything? Yes, I'm getting older and I don't think as quickly as I used to and I will have to do more research in the future.

Now back to the OP. The dealer told him that it would work, and since the OP has made two trips, it does. Is there any legal recourse? NO, unless you have tons of money. Is there any other options? There always is. I guess the OP will just have to bite the bullet and make some changes or ride on the edge of safety. He will just have to give some thought to how he wants to handle it.


Combat Vietnam Veteran Support our troops for serving our great country.
1997 Veri Lite RL1200 on a '02, K3500, CC, DRW, 8.1L, Allison, 4.1 gears, Bridgestone 225/70R19.5 tires.



Posted By: Earl E on 05/28/12 10:35pm

I had a small truck, bought a small fifth wheel the dealer said would be no problem. They even installed the hitch and I almost burned up the engine before I got from Medford, OR, over the Cascades, back to Klamath Falls, OR. I went to a trusted attorney who said forget it; read the contract, anything they said or did will be irrelevant unless it is stated in writing. He said you won't beat the dealer's contract. They hire very expensive lawyers to write those things. Move on and do what you have to do but don't waste your time fighting it. Lesson learned the hard way.


2007 Northwoods Arctic Fox 32 5S Fifth Wheel used for fulltiming for several years--SOLD
2011 Keystone 23rks Hideout to poke around the smaller parks in the great Southwest
2007 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD Diesel
Prodigy brake control


Posted By: nycsteve on 05/29/12 06:50am

tamaratrav wrote:

Boatycall,

correct on this dealer and the owners -but you're incorrect in your statements on the transaction.

we didnt ask for the bigger camper. we asked for the 700 or 750, and the rep said they were wrong for our truck, that the 850 was the one. we questioned him and installation staff, but all said good to go. our mistake was lack of knowledge to never go over the stated GVWR and to trust.

the owner/mgr, KB was there both days, handled the paperwork, and made repairs to the door, after install - no-one said it would work, and yes, its the camper we love - but it wasnt the camper we pushed for.


You said "never go over the stated GVWR" . I have to be over on my setup, a F350 4x4 CC SRW with a Lancee 981. According to Lance my camper weighs 3600#s wet. Thats with water ,propane etc. But this does not include options like AC , microwave, TV etc. So Im over the weight limit. Its a mushy ride without suspension mods. I added Rancho 9000 shocks, SwayStops, airbags. Im happy with the ride now. BUT it still does not handle like a car. More distance for braking, slower turns, no abrupt manuvers , E tires. I drive this rig with confidance even though by the book its overweight. The F350 is a robust platform , that allowed room for improvement with the stated mods. But my comfort zone and yours might be differant, you might hate driving my rig. But your Toyota is not a real truck, its a grocery-getter (as per Sleepy) disguised as a truck. Mods to the Tundra most likly will not do the trick.
Point is , many of our rigs excede GVWR , but handling and safty are restored to a point of driver confidence with some mods. The trick is not to overdue it, at a certain point no mod will help. Also individual drivers have differant threshholds of comfort.


Posted By: dokkema1 on 05/29/12 07:24am

Buy a real truck.....Im sick of hearing people whine about the 1/2 ton trucks....If you wanna haul a TC...get a 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck...whats the problem???
You endanger other people on the road by NOT purchasing a HD truck..!!!!
Your toy truck is designed to haul a washing machine ...not a Camper


Posted By: BradW on 05/29/12 08:13am

dokkema1 wrote:

Buy a real truck.....Im sick of hearing people whine about the 1/2 ton trucks....If you wanna haul a TC...get a 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck...whats the problem???
You endanger other people on the road by NOT purchasing a HD truck..!!!!
Your toy truck is designed to haul a washing machine ...not a Camper

There are many truck campers his Toyota can safely haul......just not the one he bought.

Brad


Posted By: Reality Check on 05/29/12 09:22am

I read the first few pages of this thread and had enough.

Unbelievable. Just the thought of always looking for someone to blame is troubling. All this talk about legal action, reporting, needing laws...what a bunch of nanny responses.

Everyone of us has the ability to research and walk away. There is a huge difference between fraud and ignorance, and people keep trying to blend the two for some reason. Weak; time to man up.

JMO of course. I know, it takes some of the fun out of it and all. Looking for a whipping post and realize it's in the mirror. I liked the analogy of the GF and the oil changes though...lmao


'07 F550 with Ultra link air under an '11 AF 1150. It's either a fishing boat, snowmobiles or dual sports; something is always being towed.

My wife says that I have an opinion and that you're entitled to it. You're welcome...



Posted By: Lynnsr on 05/29/12 01:12pm

OP's 1st line " I made a mistake"

Then he goes on to blame everyone else.

Now some have recommended Ford,, if he buys a Ford which of you will the OP blame ?????

"Caveat emptor" is now, always has been.

It is every buyers responsibility to learn about the product they are going to purchase. Whether is a camper, or a screwdriver.

LynnSr

PS all of the big 3 has some really great trucks.


K0LFM Call Sign
Northern Lite 8-11 Q Classic SE
Pro-Craft 180 Bass boat
2003 GMC Sierra 2500, SuperSprings, Torklifts & Fastguns, Ride-Rites w/dual Control, Helwig rear sway bar, "E" rated 16" 10 ply Michelins, Heavy Duty Pads & Rotors



Posted By: wnjj on 05/29/12 02:28pm

camper357 wrote:

I would contact the manufacturer directly. Products liability goes all the way up the food chain. If the OP ran over my family tomorrow in a his grossly overloaded vehicle I know who I would be going after.


True...when the product is at fault. In this case it's not.


Posted By: gerrym51 on 05/29/12 02:49pm

weight police. if your not happy unfortunetly its your fault.


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/29/12 05:16pm

mkirsch wrote:

I don't get it.

Where is the "I do it and it's Just Fine(tm)" crowd? I KNOW there are guys who load 1700+lb TCs on their 1/2 tons and go on down the road. They are happy as pigs in mud.

How come this particular 1700+lb TC in a 1/2 ton truck is BAD, but any other one is GOOD?
Probably because the Tacoma isn't a 1/2-ton truck. The bigger Tundra is Toyota's 1/2-ton truck and competes with the F150 and GM/Dodge 1500's. The Tacoma competes with the Ranger, Colorado/Canyon and Frontier, which are all smaller trucks.


Posted By: wnjj on 05/29/12 05:33pm

SoCalDesertRider wrote:

mkirsch wrote:

I don't get it.

Where is the "I do it and it's Just Fine(tm)" crowd? I KNOW there are guys who load 1700+lb TCs on their 1/2 tons and go on down the road. They are happy as pigs in mud.

How come this particular 1700+lb TC in a 1/2 ton truck is BAD, but any other one is GOOD?
Probably because the Tacoma isn't a 1/2-ton truck. The bigger Tundra is Toyota's 1/2-ton truck and competes with the F150 and GM/Dodge 1500's. The Tacoma competes with the Ranger, Colorado/Canyon and Frontier, which are all smaller trucks.



tamaratrav wrote:

2002 Toyota Tundra Access Cab, 4x4 SR5 TRD iForce V8 4.7 ltr. GVWR is 6,030.



Posted By: kcabpilot on 05/29/12 06:22pm

To be honest I think that Tundra could probably handle that camper if it weren't a crew cab short bed. The GVWR is a number put on the door post by the manufacturer that is valid for stock tires and no suspension upgrades. As I said in an earlier post I was sold a camper that was too big for our F250 - to the tune of being 1,000 lbs over the number on the door post but I was able to make it work and had 14 years of uneventful use of that rig,

In this case though, the camper is too far aft which is the source of the porpoising and I don't see any way to remedy that.


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/29/12 08:46pm

kcabpilot wrote:

To be honest I think that Tundra could probably handle that camper if it weren't a crew cab short bed. The GVWR is a number put on the door post by the manufacturer that is valid for stock tires and no suspension upgrades. As I said in an earlier post I was sold a camper that was too big for our F250 - to the tune of being 1,000 lbs over the number on the door post but I was able to make it work and had 14 years of uneventful use of that rig,

In this case though, the camper is too far aft which is the source of the porpoising and I don't see any way to remedy that.
I certainly agree about the crew cab, extra short bed and forward position of the axle in relation to the bed length being a bad combination for carrying a long camper, or one with a rearward COG point.

Trucks are tested and certified for braking performance at their GVWR. Braking performance does noticeably degrade once you start exceeding the GVWR. I have experienced that plenty on all of my trucks.


Posted By: TOOBOLD on 05/29/12 09:02pm

How come the pictures don't show up for me? Were they removed?


Posted By: jimh425 on 05/29/12 09:05pm

Jcghill wrote:

How come the pictures don't show up for me? Were they removed?


They were gone yesterday, fwiw.


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/29/12 09:17pm

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:12am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: jmtandem on 05/29/12 09:32pm

Quote:

OP here.

At the risk of being called a liar here again - I am just going to update as a few posters have requested. (I understand that some on the forum have dealt personally with the dealer).

(Also, it was my mistake to ever mention dealer name, as it is not my intention to call out any specific location in this industry.)

Have met in persion with the dealer.

On the plus side, dealer is offering to come to an arrangement - either camper return completely, camper return and downgrade to lightest possible camper or trailer, or to assist with fitting existing camper on new truck. Financial hit on both sides proposed.

On the interesting side - dealer still believes that the camper will work with the truck, and is offering to install air bags. Dealer skeptical of my weight numbers at 7,200 for partially loaded camper with truck, and 7,700 for fully geared up with passengers. (GVWR of 6,030).

Was tempting to think the air bags could make the troubles go away, but the information on this forum, from the tire center crew and adding 2+2 is too strong to ignore.

Test-drove a 350 and 250 Ford today.



As part of your update why did you remove the pictures you posted?


Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/29/12 09:44pm

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:12am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/29/12 09:45pm

tamaratrav wrote:

OP here.

At the risk of being called a liar here again - I am just going to update as a few posters have requested. (I understand that some on the forum have dealt personally with the dealer).

(Also, it was my mistake to ever mention dealer name, as it is not my intention to call out any specific location in this industry.)

Have met in persion with the dealer.

On the plus side, dealer is offering to come to an arrangement - either camper return completely, camper return and downgrade to lightest possible camper or trailer, or to assist with fitting existing camper on new truck. Financial hit on both sides proposed.

On the interesting side - dealer still believes that the camper will work with the truck, and is offering to install air bags. Dealer skeptical of my weight numbers at 7,200 for partially loaded camper with truck, and 7,700 for fully geared up with passengers. (GVWR of 6,030).

Was tempting to think the air bags could make the troubles go away, but the information on this forum, from the tire center crew and adding 2+2 is too strong to ignore.

Test-drove a 350 and 250 Ford today.
Sounds like your well on your way to a workable resolution, for both parties, with lots of options available as to which way to go. I'd call that a win.


Posted By: sleepy on 05/29/12 10:17pm

It ain't over 'till it's over...

I thought that I saw the pictures on facebook

please keep us informed...

sleepy


Posted By: Pete_k on 05/29/12 10:42pm

OP's 1st line " I made a mistake"

Then he goes on to blame everyone else.

If it were me give the air bags a try, Shoot with our camper and 2500HD that a lot of people thinks is not a match. We have had no issues with it in the 6 years we have hauled it around. Now without air bags it would not be the same...

But again I made sure it was the camper we wanted to buy. Not allowing a dealer tell me we could haul it or even more. I will say up front its the buyers choice to sign that dotted line or not. so it was your choice to buy that camper. Not sure why it took 2 trips with it to find out it was the wrong camper?

Same as our choice as soon as we have our T/C sold. We will be towing a 40ft 5th wheel with our 2004 2500HD most will tell you it will not do it. But I know it will. As I tow a goose neck now that weights more than that on the farm. No issues and never had any issues pulling or stopping it. Now I will say for the first few years we will not be taking trips over say 5 hours from home. But will move up to a 1 ton before heading out west. But then the only reason is our truck will have way to many miles for me to trust with the load by then. But then again I may just rebuild and keep going after the 300,000 miles LOL

Good luck and hope you get to the point your happy. But feel it was just jumping in head first and not thinking the deal through. Not the dealers fault but yours. We all get caught up in the love and ideal of something we know before buying we don't need.


2005 Chevy Kodiak c5500 Cummins 5.9/Allison Trans
2012 Landmark Key Largo
2008 Lund 1825 Pro Guide Tiller, With a Evinrude 90 HP E-Tec
Live near Pickwick Dam and the Tn river


Posted By: 3 tons on 05/29/12 11:51pm

Pete_k wrote:

OP's 1st line " I made a mistake"

Then he goes on to blame everyone else.

If it were me give the air bags a try, Shoot with our camper and 2500HD that a lot of people thinks is not a match. We have had no issues with it in the 6 years we have hauled it around. Now without air bags it would not be the same...

But again I made sure it was the camper we wanted to buy. Not allowing a dealer tell me we could haul it or even more. I will say up front its the buyers choice to sign that dotted line or not. so it was your choice to buy that camper. Not sure why it took 2 trips with it to find out it was the wrong camper?

Same as our choice as soon as we have our T/C sold. We will be towing a 40ft 5th wheel with our 2004 2500HD most will tell you it will not do it. But I know it will. As I tow a goose neck now that weights more than that on the farm. No issues and never had any issues pulling or stopping it. Now I will say for the first few years we will not be taking trips over say 5 hours from home. But will move up to a 1 ton before heading out west. But then the only reason is our truck will have way to many miles for me to trust with the load by then. But then again I may just rebuild and keep going after the 300,000 miles LOL

Good luck and hope you get to the point your happy. But feel it was just jumping in head first and not thinking the deal through. Not the dealers fault but yours. We all get caught up in the love and ideal of something we know before buying we don't need.


X 2...My magic decoder ring kindly suggest a degree of simple morning after sickness...One time or another, it happens to all of us...


Posted By: nycsteve on 05/30/12 05:10am

tamaratrav wrote:

OP here.

At the risk of being called a liar here again - I am just going to update as a few posters have requested. (I understand that some on the forum have dealt personally with the dealer).

(Also, it was my mistake to ever mention dealer name, as it is not my intention to call out any specific location in this industry.)

Have met in persion with the dealer.

On the plus side, dealer is offering to come to an arrangement - either camper return completely, camper return and downgrade to lightest possible camper or trailer, or to assist with fitting existing camper on new truck. Financial hit on both sides proposed.

On the interesting side - dealer still believes that the camper will work with the truck, and is offering to install air bags. Dealer skeptical of my weight numbers at 7,200 for partially loaded camper with truck, and 7,700 for fully geared up with passengers. (GVWR of 6,030).

Was tempting to think the air bags could make the troubles go away, but the information on this forum, from the tire center crew and adding 2+2 is too strong to ignore.

Test-drove a 350 and 250 Ford today.


Good to hear the dealership is willing to work with you on resolving your issue. If indeed he meets you at least halfway you could ask for no more. Campers are top heavy unweildly cargo for any truck, and there will be noticable handling changes for most any truck with the TC on. You cant expect a car-like drive but you want to feel in control. I think you have more of a chance for an acceptable ride for you, with a more capable American made truck than the Toyota. Good luck with the process, and enjoy the camping season.


Posted By: skyhammer on 05/30/12 07:15am

The OP has a 1st generation Tundra, which is not a full size 1/2 ton.
If he had a 2nd generation Tundra(07+), he would have gained over 1000lbs in GVWR, more than 100HP, lower gear ratio and extra gears in the tranny.
Even with the 2nd gen Tundra, he would still be over weight, but it would be manageable.


2011 Host Everest, 11.5',triple slide.
2011 F-350,DRW,CC,LWB,4X4,6.7


Posted By: sleepy on 05/30/12 08:13am

I am amazed the people will suggest a specific truck and say it is the best

I haven't tried all of the types of trucks available... so I can't tell you that my GMC 3500 Duramax/Allison with heated leather seats and 12 Bose speakers is best... how could I possibly know?

I like my GMC

It's engine is quite, it doesn't blow black smoke, and it doesn't look like cheap plastic (even though it is... just like all of the others)

I like the milage... averages 15.1, diesel.... with the camper loaded 24/7

I especially like the fact that I have obout one of the largest truck campers and the only aftermarket addition was the airbags... I use the airbags to trim the load. Airbags do not increase the capacity of the truck.

Some people spend thousands of dollars on different wheels, tires, springs, etc in their effort to get a manageable truck. My stock truck does everything without aftermarket additions

Adding a oversized tail pipe extension and a noisy muffler won't make it a diesel or make it haul more truck camper.

Adding a "chip" just says "I didn't buy a truck with the correct engine for the job I need to do.

I think that we should suggest the minimin requrements that a truck needs to meet in order to comfortably haul the truck camper. Not the brand

We all know that the OP is easily swayed... he did it at the dealer... and when several people stated that he needed a Ford... he went out and tried Ford! He focused on suggestions by annomous people that he has no idea if they actually know anything at all... or have ever had a truck camper or even a truck. The Op doesn't need to be lead into another mess...

Load E tires will haul any truck camper made... he should try a stock truck before he adds any aftermarket

He should try all brands... and get the one his wife wants (he gets to choose the engine and drive train

There are some very sharp people on the TC forum... and a few that don't know any more than the salesman that was working at micky D's last week. It takes a while to figure them out.

BTW... I admit that I don't know enough to give the OP specific advice... and don't want the blame that the dealer and sales person recieved.

sleepy


Posted By: campn4walleye on 05/30/12 08:53am

Sleepy...you are very wise.
No one person is to "blame". It's difficult to make good choices when you don't know anything about TCs, and truck matchings. You should be able to rely on the dealers (who as it turns out, MOST are only about the sale.) And half the time on this forum, folks will say "you can do it", when it's not safe. Except in this case.

How does one make the right decision? I went on here, asked a zillion questions, and read every article in the TC university. (I thought my head would explode).

In the end, decisions must be made based on what we are comfortable with. The OP had a gut feeling that the combo wasn't right, he should have ran and started checking the #s then. If that little voice is slapping you...you should listen.


Posted By: mkirsch on 05/30/12 11:27am

The dealer doesn't believe the weights? Where are the weight slips from having the truck weighed?

Without those you don't have the proverbial leg to stand on.


Posted By: JumboJet on 05/30/12 11:55am

sleepy wrote:


Some people spend thousands of dollars on different wheels, tires, springs, etc in their effort to get a manageable truck. My stock truck does everything without aftermarket additions

Adding a oversized tail pipe extension and a noisy muffler won't make it a diesel or make it haul more truck camper.

Adding a "chip" just says "I didn't buy a truck with the correct engine for the job I need to do.

sleepy


1) Wheels & Tires - my wheels are rated at 4,500 lbs. - MY Safety Factor - Tires are Load Range H - 4,940 lbs. each - MY Safety factor

My 4 tires cost about $1,500 - How much does 6 tires for your dually cost?

2) Springs - I added Torklift Stableloads - $110 - they make the overloads engage sooner - less squat

3) 5" Chrome tailpipe extension - I like the looks of chrome!

4) Chips - your Duramax (along with the Ford & Dodge diesels) is tuned in the middle at a 'safe' tune. Chips can also get better fuel economy because the tuning parameters can be changed to achieve better fuel economy. Also, for the racer, you can tune more HP. I don't have a chip - my 350 HP is more than enough. I cannot push the EGT's past 1250F and the boost past 28 psi.

I bought my SRW truck knowing what load it would be carrying, and knowing what wheels and tires I wanted to add to be safer.

If we don't spend our money, the economy will be (is) in the toilet. People will not have jobs, food on the table, and their children will all be naked and filthy! Dan and Heather at Rickson appreciate people like me. The people at Continental & Michelin tires are pleased with my support. I want even start on all the campgrounds having to shut down because of the boondockers!

I am just doing my part.

But, like Sleepy and others, I would not suggest to the OP a specific brand of truck to buy or even engine type. When Mama ain't happy, no one is happy! And yes, I brought my truck home and took my wife for a ride in it before I signed the papers. Her comment - "you need that truck".

Everyone have a nice Summer.

Sleepy, I am headed to Ft. Pickens in a few weeks.


Posted By: MKish on 05/30/12 12:17pm

Hope you get it worked out, Tamara. It does seem like you were taken advantage of because you were under-informed and maybe it's not illegal but it's certainly not right. Not sure why some were so offended that you dared to impugn the honesty of an RV salesman.

Now go be a good man and let your wife pick out your new truck color...you know how women are if you don't let them think they are making the Big Decisions.

Jeepers guys, maybe your wives let you make tech decisions to let you feel important, but women are perfectly capable of doing more than picking a trim level.


Posted By: jimh425 on 05/30/12 01:53pm

sleepy wrote:

My stock truck does everything without aftermarket additions


I think you meant...my stock truck does everything "I want" without aftermarket additions.

I'm glad it works for you, but it wouldn't work at all for my application since it fails to have only 4 tires.


Posted By: camper357 on 05/29/12 12:50pm

I would contact the manufacturer directly. Products liability goes all the way up the food chain. If the OP ran over my family tomorrow in a his grossly overloaded vehicle I know who I would be going after.


Posted By: firemedic08 on 05/30/12 02:21pm

Only 4 so you can Beach Drive?


Posted By: big whitey on 05/30/12 02:44pm

tamaratrav wrote:

OP here.

At the risk of being called a liar here again - I am just going to update as a few posters have requested. (I understand that some on the forum have dealt personally with the dealer).

(Also, it was my mistake to ever mention dealer name, as it is not my intention to call out any specific location in this industry.)

Have met in persion with the dealer.

On the plus side, dealer is offering to come to an arrangement - either camper return completely, camper return and downgrade to lightest possible camper or trailer, or to assist with fitting existing camper on new truck. Financial hit on both sides proposed.

On the interesting side - dealer still believes that the camper will work with the truck, and is offering to install air bags. Dealer skeptical of my weight numbers at 7,200 for partially loaded camper with truck, and 7,700 for fully geared up with passengers. (GVWR of 6,030).

Was tempting to think the air bags could make the troubles go away, but the information on this forum, from the tire center crew and adding 2+2 is too strong to ignore.

Test-drove a 350 and 250 Ford today.



FWIW, you now have a history with this dealer and i might add a sordid one at best.if you can get your $$ back tell the dealer thank you and MOVE ON.you will always have a tense relationship and you will be interacting with this dealer as long as you own the TC.

once again giving you the benefit of the doubt assuming the dealer still maintains your truck is/can be sufficient to haul the TC,why would any one in their right mind want to do business with this dealer


Posted By: 2BLAZERS on 05/30/12 03:18pm

tamaratrav wrote:

OP here.

At the risk of being called a liar here again - I am just going to update as a few posters have requested. (I understand that some on the forum have dealt personally with the dealer).

(Also, it was my mistake to ever mention dealer name, as it is not my intention to call out any specific location in this industry.)

Have met in persion with the dealer.

On the plus side, dealer is offering to come to an arrangement - either camper return completely, camper return and downgrade to lightest possible camper or trailer, or to assist with fitting existing camper on new truck. Financial hit on both sides proposed.

On the interesting side - dealer still believes that the camper will work with the truck, and is offering to install air bags. Dealer skeptical of my weight numbers at 7,200 for partially loaded camper with truck, and 7,700 for fully geared up with passengers. (GVWR of 6,030).

Was tempting to think the air bags could make the troubles go away, but the information on this forum, from the tire center crew and adding 2+2 is too strong to ignore.

Test-drove a 350 and 250 Ford today.


Don't forget to test drive some 2500 and 3500 Dodge Rams or Chevy/GMC trucks too. I believe in the end you'll be happier getting a fullsize truck and TC. I'd just go for a SRW 350/3500 but I'm sure you've seen ton's of other posts regarding 3/4 vrs 1 ton and SRW vrs DRW.


2011 Dodge Ram 3500 4*4 Black dually Laramie 4.10 gears
2011 Arctic Fox 1150 Drybath
2009 Polaris RZR w/fun parts
2011 Polaris Sportsman 550 XP EPS w/stuff
2006 Polaris Sportsman 500 w/stuff
1977 K5 Blazer 1 ton modified
2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid (her car)


Posted By: nycsteve on 05/30/12 03:47pm

big whitey wrote:

tamaratrav wrote:

OP here.

At the risk of being called a liar here again - I am just going to update as a few posters have requested. (I understand that some on the forum have dealt personally with the dealer).

(Also, it was my mistake to ever mention dealer name, as it is not my intention to call out any specific location in this industry.)

Have met in persion with the dealer.

On the plus side, dealer is offering to come to an arrangement - either camper return completely, camper return and downgrade to lightest possible camper or trailer, or to assist with fitting existing camper on new truck. Financial hit on both sides proposed.

On the interesting side - dealer still believes that the camper will work with the truck, and is offering to install air bags. Dealer skeptical of my weight numbers at 7,200 for partially loaded camper with truck, and 7,700 for fully geared up with passengers. (GVWR of 6,030).

Was tempting to think the air bags could make the troubles go away, but the information on this forum, from the tire center crew and adding 2+2 is too strong to ignore.

Test-drove a 350 and 250 Ford today.



FWIW, you now have a history with this dealer and i might add a sordid one at best.if you can get your $$ back tell the dealer thank you and MOVE ON.you will always have a tense relationship and you will be interacting with this dealer as long as you own the TC.

once again giving you the benefit of the doubt assuming the dealer still maintains your truck is/can be sufficient to haul the TC,why would any one in their right mind want to do business with this dealer


Bad advice. The OP's best chance to not loose his shirt is with the help of the dealer he bought from. I think the dealer deserves a chance to help fix the situation and has expressed a willingness to try. See what he offers, maybe you will be pleasantly surprised.
Best of luck!


Posted By: buggsy on 05/30/12 05:08pm

Been lurking for a bit watching this, glad to hear you are on the right track. Now you will get lots of advice on the truck, but it comes down to what works for you. Watch the weight numbers now and you should be ok picking either truck or camper. Our F-250 has a heavy payload pkg allowing 3,300 lb payload, there are F-350's out thete with less. Bottom line..... don't take anybody's word, check the weights yourself.


2005 Superduty
2011 Shadow Lite



Posted By: tamaratrav on 05/30/12 06:02pm

.

* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:13am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: big whitey on 05/30/12 06:31pm

nycsteve wrote:

big whitey wrote:

tamaratrav wrote:

OP here.

At the risk of being called a liar here again - I am just going to update as a few posters have requested. (I understand that some on the forum have dealt personally with the dealer).

(Also, it was my mistake to ever mention dealer name, as it is not my intention to call out any specific location in this industry.)

Have met in persion with the dealer.

On the plus side, dealer is offering to come to an arrangement - either camper return completely, camper return and downgrade to lightest possible camper or trailer, or to assist with fitting existing camper on new truck. Financial hit on both sides proposed.

On the interesting side - dealer still believes that the camper will work with the truck, and is offering to install air bags. Dealer skeptical of my weight numbers at 7,200 for partially loaded camper with truck, and 7,700 for fully geared up with passengers. (GVWR of 6,030).

Was tempting to think the air bags could make the troubles go away, but the information on this forum, from the tire center crew and adding 2+2 is too strong to ignore.

Test-drove a 350 and 250 Ford today.



FWIW, you now have a history with this dealer and i might add a sordid one at best.if you can get your $$ back tell the dealer thank you and MOVE ON.you will always have a tense relationship and you will be interacting with this dealer as long as you own the TC.

once again giving you the benefit of the doubt assuming the dealer still maintains your truck is/can be sufficient to haul the TC,why would any one in their right mind want to do business with this dealer


Bad advice. The OP's best chance to not loose his shirt is with the help of the dealer he bought from. I think the dealer deserves a chance to help fix the situation and has expressed a willingness to try. See what he offers, maybe you will be pleasantly surprised.
Best of luck!


nycsteve,you should reread the OP post and mine before stating bad advice.he stated that the dealer offered(and i quote) camper return completely, i took that to mean a full refund."IF" that is the case i fail to see how he would lose his shirt.if not a full refund you will have to weigh your options and control the bleeding much as possible,most likely a different truck.

i stand by my previous post,"IF" you can get your money back say thank you and move on as your relationship with this dealer will always be awkward and strained at best.if a full refund is not in the cards keep the camper and buy a different truck.that would be GOOD ADVICE.

* This post was last edited 05/30/12 07:00pm by big whitey *


Posted By: mkirsch on 05/30/12 08:37pm

jimh425 wrote:

mkirsch wrote:

How come this particular 1700+lb TC in a 1/2 ton truck is BAD, but any other one is GOOD?


The OP started with the premise that he wasn't happy! Maybe you missed that.


If the OP came on here pre-purchase and asked if the camper/truck combination was okay, there would inevitably be several representatives from the halfton hooters proclaiming how they haul a 1700lb camper in their halfton truck, how it handles it juuuuuuuuust fiiiiiiiine, and how the OP will be juuuuuuuuuust fiiiiiiiiiiine with his choice.

Those of us who would try to talk sense would be shouted down as "halfton haters" trying to compensate for something with a big pickup truck.

Where are the halfton hooters telling the OP that the problem is all in his mind, and that what he has is juuuuuuuuuust fiiiiiiiiine??? All he needs to do is add some airbags and timbrens and 19.5" tires and a couple of chunks of I-beam between the axle and frame...

I never saw the OP's rig but I do trust y'all's judgement and agree that it was too much camper for the truck on paper. I'm just wondering why we seem to be so unanimous... Nobody's trying to tell the OP what he wanted to hear. Someone ALWAYS tells the OP what they want to hear.


Posted By: iwon415 on 05/30/12 08:59pm

How come the pictures disappeared?






Posted By: jimh425 on 05/30/12 09:26pm

mkirsch wrote:

Nobody's trying to tell the OP what he wanted to hear.


I think you need to go back and read the thread...everyone was telling him exactly what he wanted to hear.


Posted By: BradW on 05/30/12 10:00pm

mkirsch wrote:

halfton hooters




Posted By: dakonthemountain on 05/30/12 10:57pm

BradW wrote:

mkirsch wrote:

halfton hooters



He wrote "hooters".

Dak


2007 Lance 1055 and Calvin, the 1996 creampuff Chev Silverado 3500 extended cab dually
Escapee member #224325-Since 1992



Posted By: sabconsulting on 05/30/12 11:41pm

mkirsch wrote:


I never saw the OP's rig...

...I'm just wondering why we seem to be so unanimous


Ha ha - we are all unanimous because we all saw the pictures

Steve.


Posted By: AK Old Timer on 05/31/12 12:06am

OP -

I'm very surprised that after 14 pages of comments, none of the so called "experts" on this forum have mentioned the Tire and Loading Information sticker usually located on the driver's side door frame. This sticker is required on every vehicle by the Govt. This decal will list the vehicle VIN #, Gross Axle Ratings for the front and rear axles (GWAR FRT & GVAR RR) and the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) for that specific vehicle as specified by the factory. The sticker will also show the total weight of passengers and cargo that vehicle was designed to carry. These are the numbers to use when you evaluate whether the vehicle you are looking is adequate to handle the the TC you want to haul on the truck.

This sticker will also specify the tire and rim sizes along with the recommended tire pressure needed to carry the maximum specified load.

To sum it all up, take a notebook and write down this information for each truck you look at. Use these numbers along with the true weight of the TC to make sure you purchase a truck designed to safely haul what ever TC you wind up with.

Good Luck!!


Posted By: nycsteve on 05/31/12 05:40am

mkirsch wrote:

jimh425 wrote:

mkirsch wrote:

How come this particular 1700+lb TC in a 1/2 ton truck is BAD, but any other one is GOOD?


The OP started with the premise that he wasn't happy! Maybe you missed that.


If the OP came on here pre-purchase and asked if the camper/truck combination was okay, there would inevitably be several representatives from the halfton hooters proclaiming how they haul a 1700lb camper in their halfton truck, how it handles it juuuuuuuuust fiiiiiiiine, and how the OP will be juuuuuuuuuust fiiiiiiiiiiine with his choice.

Those of us who would try to talk sense would be shouted down as "halfton haters" trying to compensate for something with a big pickup truck.

Where are the halfton hooters telling the OP that the problem is all in his mind, and that what he has is juuuuuuuuuust fiiiiiiiiine??? All he needs to do is add some airbags and timbrens and 19.5" tires and a couple of chunks of I-beam between the axle and frame...

I never saw the OP's rig but I do trust y'all's judgement and agree that it was too much camper for the truck on paper. I'm just wondering why we seem to be so unanimous... Nobody's trying to tell the OP what he wanted to hear. Someone ALWAYS tells the OP what they want to hear.


I wouldnt use a 150 for hauling anything other than a dozen eggs and two gallons of milk. On the other hand a TOYotas first 3 letters being TOY , I'de only use that for a dozen eggs, couldnt handle the milk.
Am I a HTH ? ( half ton hater)


Posted By: sleepy on 05/31/12 06:29am

A half ton truck is just what it is; A 2 passenger automobile with an open trunk

For years most had coil springs but they couldn't haul two fat people. If you'd follow one down the road with just the driver it would be leaning to that side just from the drivers weight.

I think 1/2 ton trucks got popular about the time that people either
(a) got too fat for the cute little two seater sports cars
(b) or realized ther was no place to haul groceries in that cute little two seater sports car.

In life there is always someone that will walk a bridge rail... yelling "Hey! Look at me!" ... Sometimes they slip and fall...They usually survive with a few scrapes if they fall on the bridge deck, and sometimes they fall all the way off the bridge with more serious consequences. One thing for sure they are noticed for taking foolish risks.

Foolish behavior is risky no matter how careful people do their stupid tricks.



Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/31/12 06:53am

Ok I think we've gone a little too far here on the half-ton truck bashing. These vehicles have their rightful place in the market. For most of them, that place is not for hauling truck campers, though a few are capable of it to some degree.


Posted By: weymard on 05/31/12 06:54am

I am going to rehabilitate the capacities of halftons

This is our first US pickup, a dodge ram 1500 quad cab 2002 4.7L with LPG conversion(propane),with a camper weighted at 2500 lbs or more (a lot of gift for Russian Family and friends, and 12 bottles of French wine hidden in the camper's floor), the truck had airbags, we traveled without issues across Europe and Russia (from Cherbourg to Perm Ural and return by Ukraine )7500 miles of whom 4000 miles so fast on roads so dirty that yours Utah tracks are just a game for babies ! .



This is our second truck camper a Silverado 1500 extended cab 2008 4x4 Vortecmax 6.0L and airbags, camper weighted around 2500lbs, we traveled only in France with it and a lot in mountains , with no issues !



In the two cases, tires was rated for 3000lbs.

Fortunately, I never met the weight police, in this case I would have had a very big ticket and would have been immobilized !!


FORD F250 LARIAT 4X4 DIESEL 2008
Lance 815 2007
France, Normandy


Posted By: joerg68 on 05/31/12 07:20am

Oh, I can trump that, weymard ;-)



That truck on the right is a half to as evidenced by 5 wheel lugs. Those are 22" wheels, btw. And a trailer. Owner was very happy.

The TC on the left is an Exkab Camper on an Isuzu D-Max.

Enough thread hijack, I think I need to post the whole album where this came from in a new thread. And good luck to the OP - I am sure you will get it sorted out!

Joerg


2008 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD + 2011 Outfitter Apex 8



Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/31/12 08:11am

joerg68 wrote:


The TC on the left is an Exkab Camper on an Isuzu D-Max.
I like that little aluminum pop-up camper! Very nice!


Posted By: sabconsulting on 05/31/12 12:14pm

SoCalDesertRider wrote:

joerg68 wrote:

...The TC on the left is an Exkab Camper on an Isuzu D-Max.
I like that little aluminum pop-up camper! Very nice!


Yeh - I didn't really look at the camper Joerg was actually talking about - I was also too distracted by the interesting pop-up on the left .

Steve.


Posted By: JoeChiOhki on 05/31/12 01:46pm

weymard wrote:







Weymard, everytime I see your rig, I keep remembering an old member here by the name of Neverhappy that was in your area who broke the frame of his half-ton truck with a truck camper.

* This post was edited 05/31/12 01:53pm by JoeChiOhki *


My Blog - The Journey of the Redneck Express
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'1992 Dodge W-250 "Dually" Power Wagon - Club Cab Long Bed 4x4 V8 5.9L gashog w/4.10 Geared axles
'1974 KIT Kamper 1106 - 11' Slide-in
'2006 Heartland BigHorn 3400RL



Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 05/31/12 05:13pm

I remember NeverHappy, or whatever his name was. I believe the frame broke right about where the air bag brackets were mounted to it.

Overweight truck camper? No problem, just put on air bags, everything will be fine!.....


Posted By: dakonthemountain on 05/31/12 05:18pm

SoCalDesertRider wrote:

I remember NeverHappy, or whatever his name was. I believe the frame broke right about where the air bag brackets were mounted to it.

Overweight truck camper? No problem, just put on air bags, everything will be fine!.....


Neverhappy is still around. He is on the Class B/van conversions threads now.

Dak


Posted By: AKPWDR8 on 05/31/12 07:53pm

SoCalDesertRider wrote:

I remember NeverHappy, or whatever his name was. I believe the frame broke right about where the air bag brackets were mounted to it.

Overweight truck camper? No problem, just put on air bags, everything will be fine!.....



Looks like a perfect fit....


Posted By: whizbang on 06/02/12 07:58pm

So what was the outcome with the OP?


Posted By: tamaratrav on 06/02/12 09:52pm

.

* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:13am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: sleepy on 06/02/12 10:01pm

tamaratrav wrote:

Bought a 2008 Silverado Gas V8 6.0 2500 HD Crew Cab LT Z71 Longbed 6sp Auto; w/tow package,existing air bags.


Congratulations...

Have you loaded your new camper on it... how does it feel.

You'll love the TC life... you hve worked for it and you have earned it. Maybe even deserve it now.

Sleepy


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 06/02/12 10:36pm

Congrats on the new real truck!


Posted By: jimh425 on 06/02/12 10:41pm

Congrats!


Posted By: sacc on 06/03/12 05:18am

Hope you have some great trips in your new rig,Congrats!!


Posted By: JumboJet on 06/03/12 05:26am

tamaratrav wrote:

Bought a 2008 Silverado Gas V8 6.0 2500 HD Crew Cab LT Z71 Longbed 6sp Auto; w/tow package,existing air bags.


Picture - got to have a picture of the truck and camper.


Posted By: jmtandem on 06/03/12 08:12am

Glad it is working out for you. Like others have said we need pics.


Posted By: BradW on 06/03/12 10:00am

tamaratrav wrote:

Bought a 2008 Silverado Gas V8 6.0 2500 HD Crew Cab LT Z71 Longbed 6sp Auto; w/tow package,existing air bags.


Second response to your original post:

SWD wrote:

............ Trade it in for something that can handle your camper.



Posted By: whizbang on 06/03/12 05:55pm

Congrats. You have the right truck for the job. Please post pics...


Posted By: magic43 on 06/03/12 09:15pm

Congratulations on making the right decision. I just upgraded from a 2002 Tundra to an F250. Overloaded is overloaded.

One thing that was never mentioned was axle bearings. I had to have mine replaced about 1200 miles from home to the tune of about $1000.


magic43


Posted By: tamaratrav on 06/04/12 10:06pm

.

* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:14am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: jimh425 on 06/04/12 10:17pm

I can't tell by the pics. They could extend out. My torklifts do.


Posted By: Camper8251 on 06/04/12 10:20pm

Wow, ok so I have been lurking on this thread watching it.. I FINALLY saw the pictures of the Tundra with the camper, and all I have to say is you got to be Shi*ting me... Just one look at that setup and it looks all wrong... Sorry, just had to lay it out there..

I am glad you got a new rig and wish you the best of luck. Thats the exact same rig I have. Its got great power and a nice ride.

If you have the stock receiver on the truck torklift make some tiedowns that bolt right on. Most likely these

http://www.hitchsource.com/rear-torklift........r-tie-downs-for-oem-hitches-p-29029.html


2008 Chevy Silverado 2500 DMAX
2008 Arctic Fox 811
Vision Wheels with
Toyo M608z's 225/70R19.5 14 plys rated at 3970


Posted By: tamaratrav on 06/04/12 10:30pm

.

* This post was last edited 07/21/12 01:14am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: 3 tons on 06/04/12 10:57pm

Camper8251 wrote:

Wow, ok so I have been lurking on this thread watching it.. I FINALLY saw the pictures of the Tundra with the camper, and all I have to say is you got to be Shi*ting me... Just one look at that setup and it looks all wrong... Sorry, just had to lay it out there..


X 2!!


Posted By: zb39 on 06/05/12 07:45am

Over the next 12 months you will realize you did the right thing!


05 Tiffin Zephyr
07 Dodge Caliber toad
Artic Fox 1150 slide
2011 DRW 3500 Crewcab Longhorn


Posted By: Dan L on 06/05/12 08:44am

Agreed, wow. That thing hangs out too far in all directions.

And how long is that box on the new truck?
I know a lot of folks put campers on a 6.5 ft box,
but I'd sure rather have the 8.

Dan


Quote:

Camper8251 wrote:
Wow, ok so I have been lurking on this thread watching it.. I FINALLY saw the pictures of the Tundra with the camper, and all I have to say is you got to be Shi*ting me... Just one look at that setup and it looks all wrong... Sorry, just had to lay it out there..



Posted By: tamaratrav on 06/05/12 10:46am

.

* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:14am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: JoeChiOhki on 06/05/12 11:15am

tamaratrav wrote:

It's 8 foot.


Those Gray Chevy (GMC) Trucks must have been popular here in Oregon when they came out, I've got a neighbor up here at Island Cove Park that has its twin sister (though yours doesn't have a great big dent in the side of the bed) .


Posted By: schoaty on 06/05/12 12:31pm

Lots of good information here - glad it all worked out for the OP. It got me thinking about my rig - a 93 F150 longbed with a Palomino Bronco 1200 on it. I, too, followed the dealer's advise. They advised overload springs, and included them with the other mods to the truck (tie downs, electrical, ...)

I need to check the GVWR and also run it over a scale sometime to see how overloaded I am. I have 3 camping trips and about 800 miles with this combo.

I bought the 1200 knowing it would fit a short or longbed truck, as the truck will be replaced before the camper. I understand longbed trucks are getting harder to find, so I kept my future options open.

What mistakes don't I know that I have already made, or am about to make?

Thanks!



*reduced size of pic*

* This post was edited 06/05/12 12:37pm by schoaty *


Posted By: jmtandem on 06/05/12 12:45pm

Quote:

What mistakes don't I know that I have already made, or am about to make?


Why do you think you have made a mistake? Go check the numbers and they will tell you everything you want to know.


Posted By: traxtermax on 06/05/12 05:27pm

tamaratrav wrote:

I did check the owner's manual - nothing there about no campers (a poster asked if it was stated there) - no info on it either, on the weight tag, etc.....

Maybe that's why the manufacturer doesn't recommend it's use with a camper. Our truck came with camper certification in the glove compartment so there's no doubt that it will haul a camper within it's CG and weight parameters.


Posted By: tamaratrav on 06/05/12 05:37pm

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:14am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: Dan L on 06/05/12 06:53pm

My mistake, with that angle and the crew cab, the box just looks small.
You're gonna be happy with that truck.

"tamaratrav wrote:
It's 8 foot."


Posted By: JoeChiOhki on 06/06/12 10:28am

tamaratrav wrote:

Hey Joe of Island Cove Park on Sauvie Island -

do you live close to that the truck camper that is a permanent spot at the rv park by by marina?

i saw that a few weeks ago - and wished i'd taken a photo.

had never seen a truck camper with that type of deck and stuff built on or around the back.

...does the owner of it also have a boat moored there.....or do they live full time in that little camper?

Travis


That little camper with the deck and the garden is me, the marina across the road is actually the Portland Yacht club, so no boat moorage for me .

That is what I call my Redneck base-camp or the "docking station" for the truck camper.

When I'm not going somewhere, my little home get's docked back into the site .


Posted By: sleepy on 06/06/12 10:58am

JoeChiOhki wrote:

tamaratrav wrote:

Hey Joe of Island Cove Park on Sauvie Island -

do you live close to that the truck camper that is a permanent spot at the rv park by by marina?

i saw that a few weeks ago - and wished i'd taken a photo.

had never seen a truck camper with that type of deck and stuff built on or around the back.

...does the owner of it also have a boat moored there.....or do they live full time in that little camper?

Travis


That little camper with the deck and the garden is me, the marina across the road is actually the Portland Yacht club, so no boat moorage for me .

That is what I call my Redneck base-camp or the "docking station" for the truck camper.

When I'm not going somewhere, my little home get's docked back into the site .


Joe... your little home has a bathroom with shower, and everything that a stick built has except a washer and dryer... very small truck campers and trailers don't have what you (and I have)

Our living room is the whole world outside our windows!

I just love it when people equate size with function... I haven't paid for a campground in the 1007 nights that we have traveled since 2003... meaning we have no need for shore power, bath houses, or anything else... we have it all with us... often for months at a time. And we get good fuel economy.

Over the last 40 years I have noticed that if a person refers to a TC as little they either don't have one or will soon be getting rid of one.

Truth is... all RV's depreciate just like house trailers and boats... but boaters usually get more respect from the general public.

sleepy


Posted By: buggsy on 06/06/12 11:17am

Finally had a chance to see the pics. On the old setup, all I can say is you gotta be kidding.

Congrats on the new truck.

Perhaps this deserves a sticky titled "Look here before buying - what NOT to do"


Posted By: JoeChiOhki on 06/06/12 12:10pm

sleepy wrote:

JoeChiOhki wrote:

tamaratrav wrote:

Hey Joe of Island Cove Park on Sauvie Island -

do you live close to that the truck camper that is a permanent spot at the rv park by by marina?

i saw that a few weeks ago - and wished i'd taken a photo.

had never seen a truck camper with that type of deck and stuff built on or around the back.

...does the owner of it also have a boat moored there.....or do they live full time in that little camper?

Travis


That little camper with the deck and the garden is me, the marina across the road is actually the Portland Yacht club, so no boat moorage for me .

That is what I call my Redneck base-camp or the "docking station" for the truck camper.

When I'm not going somewhere, my little home get's docked back into the site .


Joe... your little home has a bathroom with shower, and everything that a stick built has except a washer and dryer... very small truck campers and trailers don't have what you (and I have)

Our living room is the whole world outside our windows!

I just love it when people equate size with function... I haven't paid for a campground in the 1007 nights that we have traveled since 2003... meaning we have no need for shore power, bath houses, or anything else... we have it all with us... often for months at a time. And we get good fuel economy.

Over the last 40 years I have noticed that if a person refers to a TC as little they either don't have one or will soon be getting rid of one.

Truth is... all RV's depreciate just like house trailers and boats... but boaters usually get more respect from the general public.

sleepy


I've always called her my "Little Home" since I moved into her full-time in 2008.

When I travel, I'm always home, because my home goes along for the ride , it makes the packing and unpacking part alot simpler , since unpacking usually just means unloading the camper from the truck back into her spot next to my deck.

I do have a garage on site, where I now keep all of the camper's auxiliary parts (The hitch extension, cargo basket, bike rack, etc...) which also allows me to tinker on whatever my next great camper project is going to be .

Looking forward to getting back on the road this coming September, the budget is nearly filled for my Great Eastern Adventure of 5800 miles and the only things ahead of me are some truck maintenance work and a few upgrades I decided were needed after her break-in run at the past Fall Colors rally.


Posted By: firemedic08 on 06/06/12 12:29pm

What Gives Joe, I wanna see this Dock Site of yours. Do you have pics here anywhere?


Posted By: JoeChiOhki on 06/06/12 01:37pm

firemedic08 wrote:

What Gives Joe, I wanna see this Dock Site of yours. Do you have pics here anywhere?


Actually, I do have them, but the day-time photos are fairly out of date, but my christmas photos are recent .



One thing that has changed since this was taken is I finally got my garage built in the big barn, so I no longer have that screen room setup next to the camper.

My original blog entry about the "Redneck base camp" is here:

The Journey of the Redneck Express - Redneck Base Camp


Posted By: Boatycall on 06/06/12 06:19pm

tamaratrav wrote:

Bought a 2008 Silverado Gas V8 6.0 2500 HD Crew Cab LT Z71 Longbed 6sp Auto; w/tow package,existing air bags.




Geeze. As if ALLLLLL of what he's been though wasn't enough, pages and pages of posts and replies, he goes and buys a CHEVY!


Won't he ever learn??

Sorry Chet, had to go there!



Posted By: tamaratrav on 06/06/12 10:05pm

.

* This post was last edited 07/21/12 01:15am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: sleepy on 06/07/12 03:02am

Boatycall wrote:

tamaratrav wrote:

Bought a 2008 Silverado Gas V8 6.0 2500 HD Crew Cab LT Z71 Longbed 6sp Auto; w/tow package,existing air bags.




Geeze. As if ALLLLLL of what he's been though wasn't enough, pages and pages of posts and replies, he goes and buys a CHEVY!


Won't he ever learn??

Sorry Chet, had to go there!


Like many retirees... I had to have a Caddy... er;... GMC

It has been good to me... and I would do it again.

I try to never tell anyone what that they should have... I'll suggest what they should avoid and be specific as to the why.

Sleepy


Posted By: BradW on 06/07/12 04:54am

Boatycall wrote:

Geeze. As if ALLLLLL of what he's been though wasn't enough, pages and pages of posts and replies, he goes and buys a CHEVY! Won't he ever learn??


http://youtu.be/1fuDDqU6n4o


Posted By: tamaratrav on 06/07/12 08:33pm

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:15am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: jimh425 on 06/07/12 08:43pm

Boatycall wrote:

As if ALLLLLL of what he's been though wasn't enough, pages and pages of posts and replies, he goes and buys a CHEVY!


On the plus side, he can still upgrade.


Posted By: jimh425 on 06/07/12 08:44pm

tamaratrav wrote:

Original installing TC dealer owner will now have his shop install new frame mounted tie downs and the 7 pin wiring jack in the bed on the '08 truck at no charge, so will be going that route.


Sounds like a good deal!


Posted By: sleepy on 06/08/12 04:19am

I think the OP should edit the title of thids threadto say "I goofed... I fixed my goof... my dealer is helping me set up my correct truck for free"

Legal was NEVER going to happen


Posted By: jmtandem on 06/08/12 08:04am

Quote:

Original installing TC dealer owner will now have his shop install new frame mounted tie downs and the 7 pin wiring jack in the bed on the '08 truck at no charge, so will be going that route. Scheduled for Wednesday


I am glad that Apache is working through the issues you had and making you a satisfied customer.


Posted By: tmartin000 on 06/08/12 10:57pm



* This post was last edited 06/10/12 10:19pm by an administrator/moderator *


2004.5 Chev Silverado 2500HD Duramax Short box (6', 6")

2001 Lance Lite 835 ---Keep it simple.
2003 990 Actic Fox-- sold ---NEVER AGAIN A BIG GIGANTIC CAMPER


Posted By: jimh425 on 06/08/12 11:06pm

tmartin000, are you pointing out that your camper looks too big also? The weight appears too far back. I think the Crew Cab and Short Bed contribute to the unbalanced look. Did you really have a Arctic Fox 990 on that same truck?


Posted By: tmartin000 on 06/08/12 11:09pm

Yep, that's what I'm trying to say. LOL

No, the truck before was a 97 dually 1 ton



* This post was edited 06/10/12 10:19pm by an administrator/moderator *


Posted By: sleepy on 06/09/12 02:18am

tmartin000 wrote:

Yep, that's what I'm trying to say. LOL

No, the truck before was a 97 dually 1 ton



How much higher can you raise that piping? I notice that the original jacks are on and they are quite a bit higher at the bottom off the toad.

the bottom is lower than your axel

speaking of off the road... are you afraid to take it off the highway... it would do a lot of damage if it rolled over a curb or rock.


Is this a photoshop?

Or is it the angle that you took the picture... an opticle illusion?

* This post was edited 06/10/12 10:19pm by an administrator/moderator *


Posted By: tmartin000 on 06/09/12 10:30pm

It worked great for the three years I owned it. But every time I went somewhere, I hated to drive it. Way too much weight.


Posted By: tamaratrav on 06/10/12 07:21pm

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* This post was edited 07/21/12 01:16am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: kerry4951 on 06/10/12 08:44pm

sleepy wrote:

tmartin000 wrote:

Yep, that's what I'm trying to say. LOL

No, the truck before was a 97 dually 1 ton



How much higher can you raise that piping? I notice that the original jacks are on and they are quite a bit higher at the bottom off the toad.

the bottom is lower than your axel

speaking of off the road... are you afraid to take it off the
highway... it would do a lot of damage if it rolled over a curb or rock.


Is this a photoshop?

Or is it the angle that you took the picture... an opticle illusion?

Thats no optical illusion. Thats how all the Stable Lift systems mount up. Seems to be one of the main issues that concern alot of TC owners.

* This post was edited 06/10/12 10:17pm by an administrator/moderator *


2009 Silverado 3500 dually D/A, Supersprings, Stable Loads, Bilsteins, Hellwig Sway Bar.
2010 Arctic Fox 1140 DB, 220 watts solar, custom 4 in 1 "U" shaped dinette/couch, baseboard and Cat 3 heat, 2nd dinette TV, cabover headboard storage, 65 TC mods


Posted By: jmtandem on 06/10/12 09:09pm

Quote:

Combo almost complete



Lookin good!


Posted By: JoeChiOhki on 06/11/12 11:35am



The camper looks alot happier .


Posted By: Camper JamesB on 06/11/12 11:45am




Getting excited yet? Glad to see it is all working out.


Posted By: tamaratrav on 06/25/12 12:06am

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* This post was last edited 07/21/12 01:16am by tamaratrav *


Posted By: schoaty on 06/25/12 06:52am

That looks a lot happier!


Posted By: jmtandem on 06/25/12 08:51am

Quote:

From a 2002 Tundra to a 2008 Silverado


Nice!


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