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Topic: Lance 825 for my F150 Supercrew?

Posted By: Mello Mike on 08/16/11 12:28am

Long time travel trailer guy here. I'm thinking about buying my first truck camper for my 2010 F150 Supercrew with the 5.4L V8. The dry weight of the Lance 825 is 1755 lbs. Max payload of the F150 is 1900 lbs and the truck can tow a max of 9000 lbs. The Lance 825 is made for 1/2 ton trucks but I'm concerned about the suspension. What are the typical mods made to support a TC? Air Bags? Load E tires? What else? And do you think the truck and camper is a good combo?

Thanks for your replies in advance.


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Posted By: Golden_HVAC on 08/16/11 12:35am

Lets see, you have a cargo rating of 1900 pounds and don't plan on having any passengers in the truck, don't plan on bringing along food or especially water, 30 gallons will be 240 extra pounds you can not carry!

You must be kidding - right?

A shortbed is a really bad idea to have a camper on it, to much weight will be behind the rear axle, and the front tires will not carry the correct percentage of overall weight to make driving it safe. And you will not have the ability to carry 300 pounds of passengers, 200 pounds of food, 250 pounds of water, without exceeding your 1900 pound cargo rating by more than 1000 pounds.

A camper should always be on a 1 ton truck, dually is better. Longbed will also prevent so much weight from hanging off the rear axle, behind the tailgate, thus overloading the rear tires and taking a lot of weight off the front axle. The 2005 and later F-350's with a 4,000 pound cargo rating is fine, the camper at 1800 pounds with the 200 pound optional air conditioner, other options and 240 pounds of water, 56 more pounds in the hot water tank, and full propane tanks. You acually will see the F-350 loaded up pretty good with a camper and 3 passengers in it.

At least with the F-350, you can still have cargo capacity for a little firewood, and all the food and water needed for a week long trip.

If you are considering a camper, then a light weight model, made for a shortbed, with a canvas pop top might be under 1,400 pounds loaded for a trip, but I really don't think it will be light enough, and you will have to carry the passengers in another vehicle.

You are best with a travel trailer, and it will be larger inside, have less weight on the back of the truck. You can tow something with a 1,200 pound hitch weight, and that limits you to thousands of trailers, up to 8,000 or 9,000 pounds GVWR, 24 - 30' long.

Fred.


Posted By: Steve_in_29 on 08/16/11 12:49am

Besides what Golden posted, your 5.5' bed doesn't help either.

NO way the 825 will work on your truck.


2007 F350,SC,LB,4x4,6.0/Auto,35" tires,16.5 Warn,Buckstop bumpers
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Posted By: JimTram on 08/16/11 01:18am

FWIW, my 825 weights 2390 lbs wet. This includes the A/C and a Yamaha 2KW portable. No groceries, pots/pans, personal items.

My F250's payload capacity is 3800 lbs.

This is the same model advertised to fit on a Tundra - I would not do it!!!


2011 Lance 825, 2012 F250 6.7L Turbo Diesel 4x2 SC SWB SRW, Firestone Ride-Rite Air Bags


Posted By: Camper8251 on 08/16/11 05:16am

Mello Mike: Sorry not rain on the parade but camper MFG's usually are a little off on the weights of the campers. You will most likely be way too heavy. You will end up paying for it in the end thru upgrades to the stock system as well as maintenance.


2008 Chevy Silverado 2500 DMAX
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Posted By: kohldad on 08/16/11 05:27am

Biggest problem is the 5.5' bed with the super-crew. When camper manufacturer says "short bed", they are referring to a 6.5' bed.

Sorry, but don't know a single camper that is made for a mini-bed super-crew.


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Posted By: bobndot on 08/16/11 05:46am

Maybe one of these will work for you. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/03/pho........-nest-for-the-ford-f-150-svt-raptor.html


Posted By: mkirsch on 08/16/11 06:26am

These guys are right... Weight issues aside, you've only got a 5.5' bed.

Take a look at it, the rear axle is practically at the front of the bed! That means all 1755+ pounds of camper is going to land well behind the rear axle on your truck. You'll practically be doing wheelies!


2002 Chevy 3500 DRW/8.1/Allison & 2000 Palomino B1500 popup TC

-Yes, I haul a popup with a dually. No, I don't think I need a dually to haul a popup.


Posted By: Mello Mike on 08/16/11 07:01am

Thanks for the replies, guys. Wow! So basically what you're telling me is that the folks at Lance Camper and Northwood (they just produced an exact copy of Lance's 825) are a bunch of liars. They advertise that the 825 is made for 1/2 ton, Tundra, and Titan short bed trucks.

I believe you guys that the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks make ideal platforms for truck campers, but I thought that a number of suspension mods would do the trick. I should note that I'm thinking about upgrading my truck to a F150 6.5 bed, but based on what some of you are saying, this wouldn't even be worth it because the payload is 100 pounds less.

* This post was edited 08/16/11 07:08am by Mello Mike *


Posted By: mkirsch on 08/16/11 07:25am

Pretty much, yeah.

Even "properly equipped" the rated payloads on F150, 1500, Titan, and Tundra class trucks tops out at 2000lbs. That leaves you room for the empty base camper and one fat guy in the driver's seat...

UNLESS you get one of these "cheater 1/2 tons" that are really light 3/4 ton trucks. Ford has had an F150HD model with a 3000lb payload for years, but it's always been a basic truck with limited options. Chevy produced a 1500HD, which was really just a 2500 (non-HD) crew cab short bed truck for a few years back in the early 2000's.


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 08/16/11 07:37am

Supposedly, for 2012 or 2013 model year, Ford is going to be offering the F150HD Max Payload Package on the Supercrew 6'6" bed configuration and higher trim levels. In Supercrew 6'6" bed 2wd configuration, it will have about 2500 lbs payload capacity. This is very good news for the F150.

Currently, the HD Max Payload Capacity package is only offered with the regular cab and super cab, only with the 8' bed and only in XL and XLT trim levels. With the regular cab 2wd, the payload capacity is about 3000 lbs. With the super cab 4wd, the payload capacity is about 2500 lbs.

Ford should just drop that useless 5'6" short bed altogether and stick with the regular 8' bed and the 6'6" short beds that the F150 has always had for several decades.


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Posted By: DGrid39 on 08/16/11 07:57am

I respectfully disagree with some of the posts..

I have a Tundra Double Cab with a 6 1/2" bed..I installed Firestone air bags, Rancho 9000XL shocks and a Toyota TRD swaybar..I have absolutely no problem hauling my 2000-2200 lb Palomino Bronco Popup..

The only thing that concerned me was my 4150 lb RAWR(rear axle weight requirement). After deeper research I talked with HINO that makes the rear axle(in TN) for my truck..They said my rear axle was "engineered" for 5200-5400 lbs....Further research indicated that manufacturers usually go with 75-80% of engineered specs..I don't know if this is true..

I do know this....This truck handles the camper well and has brakes 13.9" rotors(I think larger than the Chevy 2500HD or the Super Duty Ford) that stops quickly...I also average 12.9 mpg at 65mph which is almost 3 mpg better than a friend's 2011 HD which is 10 mpg with camper..We now have a little over 8000 miles on the T/C combo.

I do TOTALLY agree that I would not put a camper on a 5 1/2' bed..


Posted By: Mello Mike on 08/16/11 08:47am

Thanks guys. We are strongly considering an upgrade to the HD F-150 Supercrew with the 6.5 bed.


Posted By: DGrid39 on 08/16/11 09:05am

Mello Mike wrote:

Thanks guys. We are strongly considering an upgrade to the HD F-150 Supercrew with the 6.5 bed.


Mello Mike, I don't think you will find a HD 150 as such..What you have to do is order the F150 with "Max Towing" & "Max Payload" package..I found this out when I was looking for trucks..

My problem was finding a dealer that knew what the Max Towing & Max Payload were...The dealers around here had no clue..

Good luck with whatever you choose..


Posted By: bedrocker on 08/16/11 09:21am

Just get a F250 and be done with it


Posted By: big whitey on 08/16/11 10:34am

bedrocker wrote:

Just get a F250 and be done with it


X2


Posted By: fatmanobx on 08/16/11 11:23am

I tried to use my F150 for my 1850# TC and it flatten it. It had a 6 .5 bed and just couldn't handel the weight. I put airbags, rancho 9000 on it and it helped quite a bit. I have since traded for a F250 and there is no concerns on what i load in my camper now. If you are going to trade, go F250HD...good luck..


2003 Four Winds Infinity 37'
2011 Lance 855
3.5# Minpin named Darcy
Ford F250 Super Duty


Posted By: Mello Mike on 08/16/11 11:48am

Thanks, Fatmanobx. What year was your F-150?


Posted By: Steve_in_29 on 08/16/11 11:54am

bedrocker wrote:

Just get a F250 and be done with it
Actually spend $1K more and step up to an F350 SRW. That will give you the most flexibility as far as picking a TC while staying within the same on-road footprint.


Posted By: Mello Mike on 08/16/11 12:31pm

Yeah, I'd love to get a F-250 or F-350 but the truck will be the wife's daily driver. She loves how the F-150 handles and I can't say I blame her. We had a 2003 Ford Excursion with the 6.0L PSD and she hated to drive it. She said it drove like a truck.


Posted By: Mello Mike on 08/16/11 12:37pm

DGrid39 wrote:

Mello Mike, I don't think you will find a HD 150 as such..What you have to do is order the F150 with "Max Towing" & "Max Payload" package..I found this out when I was looking for trucks..

My problem was finding a dealer that knew what the Max Towing & Max Payload were...The dealers around here had no clue..

Good luck with whatever you choose..


Thanks DGrid39. Your setup gives me hope that this can work with the proper mods. Yeah, I knew there was no true "HD" F-150. I used that designator to indicate that I needed the max tow and payload package option.


Posted By: mkirsch on 08/16/11 12:40pm

Mello Mike wrote:

Yeah, I'd love to get a F-250 or F-350 but the truck will be the wife's daily driver. She loves how the F-150 handles and I can't say I blame her. We had a 2003 Ford Excursion with the 6.0L PSD and she hated to drive it. She said it drove like a truck.


The HD or Max Payload truck is not the same.

It will handle like a truck because it has a heavier suspension and stiffer tires.


Posted By: mkirsch on 08/16/11 12:45pm

DGrid39 wrote:

I have a Tundra Double Cab with a 6 1/2" bed..I installed Firestone air bags, Rancho 9000XL shocks and a Toyota TRD swaybar..I have absolutely no problem hauling my 2000-2200 lb Palomino Bronco Popup..


Your definition of "no problem" could very well be "all over the road" to the next guy.

Besides, the Lance 825 is going to weigh a whole lot more than 2200lbs loaded up ready to camp.

Now step back and add up all you spent to "upgrade" the truck... when you could've purchased a truck that would "do it all" with ZERO modifications for about what you spent on your Tundra and the upgrades.


Posted By: garryk6 on 08/16/11 12:59pm

fatmanobx wrote:

I tried to use my F150 for my 1850# TC and it flatten it. It had a 6 .5 bed and just couldn't handel the weight. I put airbags, rancho 9000 on it and it helped quite a bit. I have since traded for a F250 and there is no concerns on what i load in my camper now. If you are going to trade, go F250HD...good luck..


Hello Mello Mike!,
I too am a fellow USN retiree, and I have had many half tons through the years, thinking that it could beef-it-up for what-ever I was carrying, pulling hauling etc. The other thing though is safety in Braking, and overall suspension "suredness". I currently have a 2002 F350 SRW that is the CCSB 4x4 with the same 5.4 and the 6spd manual. I am so happy that I found this truck. The factory F350 Overloads really make a difference in hauling and sway control. You will want the factory camper pkg that includes a really good 33mm swaybar. Even the expensive Helwig bars are mostly 30mm. The braking is great even with a healthy load, and driving is just like driving a lifted 1/2 ton, as the wheel base is pretty close to the 1/2 ton CCSB trucks. The cost is not significantly more, when you are looking at having to add swaybars, air-bags etc just to "make-do". If you are looking at a F250, I would strongly recommend that you just move to the F350. That way if you decide later you want a little more camper, you still have some room to grow! ;-)
Good luck on your search, You will be pretty happy with the 5.4 and a lighter TC. I have been pretty happy with mine. And Most of all, whatever you get, get out and go camping and just have FUN!
Garry in AK


Garry K
Wife + 4 kids
Retired Military Family.... Alway's on the move....
2002 F350 CCSB 5.4 6spd 4x4 in AK
1966 Avion C-10 Truck Camper



Posted By: Mello Mike on 08/16/11 01:17pm

garryk6 wrote:

Hello Mello Mike!,
I too am a fellow USN retiree, and I have had many half tons through the years, thinking that it could beef-it-up for what-ever I was carrying, pulling hauling etc. The other thing though is safety in Braking, and overall suspension "suredness". I currently have a 2002 F350 SRW that is the CCSB 4x4 with the same 5.4 and the 6spd manual. I am so happy that I found this truck. The factory F350 Overloads really make a difference in hauling and sway control. You will want the factory camper pkg that includes a really good 33mm swaybar. Even the expensive Helwig bars are mostly 30mm. The braking is great even with a healthy load, and driving is just like driving a lifted 1/2 ton, as the wheel base is pretty close to the 1/2 ton CCSB trucks. The cost is not significantly more, when you are looking at having to add swaybars, air-bags etc just to "make-do". If you are looking at a F250, I would strongly recommend that you just move to the F350. That way if you decide later you want a little more camper, you still have some room to grow! ;-)
Good luck on your search, You will be pretty happy with the 5.4 and a lighter TC. I have been pretty happy with mine. And Most of all, whatever you get, get out and go camping and just have FUN!
Garry in AK


Thanks Garry. Great feedback. I love your Avion Camper, reminds me of my Airstreams. I had a chance to buy an Avion last summer but didn't have a truck at the time. Now that's a camper I'd LOVE to have. I'm really leaning toward the F-250 now. I just have to convince my wife. She really loves how the F-150s drive.

Mike


Posted By: DGrid39 on 08/16/11 01:20pm

mkirsch wrote:

DGrid39 wrote:

I have a Tundra Double Cab with a 6 1/2" bed..I installed Firestone air bags, Rancho 9000XL shocks and a Toyota TRD swaybar..I have absolutely no problem hauling my 2000-2200 lb Palomino Bronco Popup..


Your definition of "no problem" could very well be "all over the road" to the next guy.

Besides, the Lance 825 is going to weigh a whole lot more than 2200lbs loaded up ready to camp.

Now step back and add up all you spent to "upgrade" the truck... when you could've purchased a truck that would "do it all" with ZERO modifications for about what you spent on your Tundra and the upgrades.



mkirsch, I didn't make it clear..I have had my Tundra 4 years..So I had the truck 2 1/2 years before getting into T/C's...When I trade I will probably upgrade to a 2500 series...I only wish Toyota made one because this truck has been flawless..

For now the truck/camper combo I have is working fine..I think I have spent around $700.00 in upgrades..Air bags, sway bar & shocks..I think I would have to add air bags to the Chevy 2500HD in order to level the camper..I have seen a lot of them on the road that lean and they are on big trucks..

I drove Chevys for 50 years prior to buying the Tundra..That being the case I have only looked at Chevys...I have a little time before trading so I will probably look at Ford trucks.interest zero intrest in Chrysler products...

We have a couple of Ford F250's in the family with the 7.3 diesel..I do some hauling with them and it wears me out...Both trucks wander all over the road...I hope Ford has made some major improvements..

Whoops, I was just told that one of the trucks has the 6.0 diesel...


Posted By: ~DJ~ on 08/16/11 01:53pm

Mello Mike wrote:

Yeah, I'd love to get a F-250 or F-350 but the truck will be the wife's daily driver. She loves how the F-150 handles and I can't say I blame her. We had a 2003 Ford Excursion with the 6.0L PSD and she hated to drive it. She said it drove like a truck.


I can't blame her either!!! These F150's are awesome. I would look for a TC about 4-500 lbs lighter tho.


2011 F250 Super Cab Lariat 6.2 373 FX4 Short Box 4" BDS, 35" Toyos, TorkLift, 16.5K Warn, Locked & Loaded
2007 SunLite Pop Up, Dometic 12 volt fridge, 100 watt solar, Trojan AGM



Posted By: bedrocker on 08/16/11 01:58pm

She said it drove like a truck
Ain't that what ya need


Posted By: Wheelholder on 08/16/11 06:03pm

I had a 1500 with a Lance 805 on it. That was about the biggest camper I would put on it. I never felt comfortable driving with that much weight on it. We upgraded to a Silverado 2500 HD. Like night and day driving.

We upgraded the camper to a Lance 830. That is the largest camper I will put on the truck. Appears I will have to add a sway bar to make it handle like I want it to.

The 2500 rides very nice without the camper. Almost like a car. Just a bit longer than the 1500 was. Might be what you are looking for.

The only suspension mod I have is Timbren Suspension Enhancement System. No air bags. Squats about 3 inches with the camper on.


2008 Silverado crew cab Duramax/Allison
2008 Lance 830


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 08/16/11 06:13pm

bedrocker wrote:

She said it drove like a truck
Ain't that what ya need
Agreed.

Sometimes trucks drive like trucks, just like dogs bark like dogs.


Posted By: fatmanobx on 08/16/11 06:59pm

Mello Mike wrote:

Thanks, Fatmanobx. What year was your F-150?
It was a 2004 Mike...If you will go to the TC forum there is all kinds of infomation on the forum. It also has a section where F150s have been used with several different campers successfully..Good luck..Happy Trails..


Posted By: c.traveler2 on 08/17/11 01:30am

Mello Mike wrote:

Long time travel trailer guy here. I'm thinking about buying my first truck camper for my 2010 F150 Supercrew with the 5.4L V8. The dry weight of the Lance 825 is 1755 lbs. Max payload of the F150 is 1900 lbs and the truck can tow a max of 9000 lbs. The Lance 825 is made for 1/2 ton trucks but I'm concerned about the suspension. What are the typical mods made to support a TC? Air Bags? Load E tires? What else? And do you think the truck and camper is a good combo?

Thanks for your replies in advance.


The lance 815 was suppose to be able to go on a 1/2 ton as well and isn't much more in weight than the 825. I learned in a short time that a half ton truck wasn't en ought truck even for this camper. bought a 3/4 ton truck and never looked back and didn't regret my decision. Look into some of the pop-up camper that are liter in weight for your F150.


2007 F-250 4x4 /6.0 PSD/ext cab/LB/camper pkg..Lance 815/ 85 watts solar panel



Travelingman2 Photo Website
Truck Camper Trip Reports



Posted By: JoeChiOhki on 08/17/11 03:41am

If wife wants a comfy ride, she needs to get a late 90s Taurus with the SL package, that will give her a comfy ride and have plenty of power, plus get far better fuel economy than even a half-ton.

Trucks feel like trucks cause their built to do a trucks job, haul loads. Trucks have plenty comfy rides, when they're loaded down and doing what they were built to do, haul loads.

My truck kicks like a pissed off mule when its empty, but rides like a caddy when its got all 4000lbs of 11' camper in her bed.

Wanna know how rough? Just ask my buddy that was with me one time, and we went over a particularly ugly bump and he launched off the seat (even with his belt) and banged his head on the sheet metal ceiling.


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'2006 Heartland BigHorn 3400RL



Posted By: Blind Bob on 08/17/11 05:31am

I fought this same fight in my head a couple years ago. 150HD or F250. The 250 won out largely because some of these fellas know what they're talking about. You'll be glad that you bought the bigger truck and my wife loves to drive the 250.


2010 F250 extended cab long bed.

1972 Amerigo


Posted By: Joners on 08/19/11 03:28pm

Sorry! Disregard.


1996 Chevy K1500 4X4 Short Box, 5.7L Vortec, E rated tires, Lance Model 820 with Cabover Struts, Firestone Ride-Rite Air Bags, KYB MonoMax Shocks, Torklift Stable Loads, Happijac Truck Camper Tiedowns and Turnbuckles, Honda Eu2000i Inverter/Generator.


Posted By: Mello Mike on 08/20/11 10:49am

Thanks for the replies everyone. We are in the process of buying a 2011 F-250 Crewcab shortbed with the 6.2L V8. The wife was very impressed with how it drove. Ford made some amazing steering, braking, and handling improvements from 2010 to 2011. Getting a F-250 makes me very happy because that is what I really wanted all along.

Now we just have to find a nice gently used camper (which will be much easier now that we have a F-250 vice a F-150).


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 08/20/11 01:06pm

Your range of camper choices will be broader now with the F250 versus the F150.

I would, however, recommend buying the F350SRW instead of the F250, since you are buying a brand new truck.

In a 2011 model year crew cab short bed single rear wheel gas engine 4wd configuration, the F350SRW has 11,000 GVWR, 7000 RGAWR and 3960 Payload Rating, versus the F250's 9600 GVWR, 6200 RGAWR and 2690 Payload Rating, for basically the same truck- same physical size, similar price, same gas mileage.

That's a payload capacity difference of about 1300 lbs in favor of the F350, versus the F250. You can buy a 1300 lb heavier camper if you choose the F350 instead of the F250, if both trucks are otherwise equally configured and optioned.

There is really no reason to choose the F250 over the F350SRW, since the F350SRW gives you so much more rated capacity with no change in manueverability or parking ability of the truck, virtually no change in gas mileage and only a small difference in price.

This is just something to think about before you sign on the dotted line for the F250...


Posted By: Mello Mike on 08/20/11 01:33pm

SoCalDesertRider wrote:

Your range of camper choices will be broader now with the F250 versus the F150.

I would, however, recommend buying the F350SRW instead of the F250, since you are buying a brand new truck.

In a 2011 model year crew cab short bed single rear wheel gas engine 4wd configuration, the F350SRW has 11,000 GVWR, 7000 RGAWR and 3960 Payload Rating, versus the F250's 9600 GVWR, 6200 RGAWR and 2690 Payload Rating, for basically the same truck- same physical size, similar price, same gas mileage.


You brought up some good points, the 2012 F-250s actually have payload ratings around 3,600 lbs, almost identical to the F-350s.


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 08/20/11 02:08pm

Mello Mike wrote:

SoCalDesertRider wrote:

Your range of camper choices will be broader now with the F250 versus the F150.

I would, however, recommend buying the F350SRW instead of the F250, since you are buying a brand new truck.

In a 2011 model year crew cab short bed single rear wheel gas engine 4wd configuration, the F350SRW has 11,000 GVWR, 7000 RGAWR and 3960 Payload Rating, versus the F250's 9600 GVWR, 6200 RGAWR and 2690 Payload Rating, for basically the same truck- same physical size, similar price, same gas mileage.


You brought up some good points, the 2012 F-250s actually have payload ratings around 3,600 lbs, almost identical to the F-350s.
I went to the fleet Ford website looking for the 2012 model year body builder guide. Apparently, the 2012 guide isn't out yet, but they did have a file on new changes for 2012 model year.

There were no F250 GVWR increases listed. They listed the same max 10K GVWR as 2011. The only F250 GVWR change listed was a payload downgrade package, with lower GVWR.

It does not appear to me that the 2012 F250 has any higher GVWR, RGAWR or Payload Rating than the 2011 model year.

In any event, you stated you were buying a 2011 model year truck...


Posted By: Mello Mike on 08/24/11 09:29am

Did some more research on the 2011 4x2 F-250. The Crewcab shortbed model with the 6.2L gas engine has a payload of 2,900 lbs. The F-350 in the same model has 3,990 lbs of payload. However, an F-350 with a gas engine is very hard to find now. I had a heck of a time finding my F-250 and they had to transfer it from one state away.


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 08/24/11 11:09am

Agreed. The dealers all stock F250's rather than F350's. Ordering the truck, or doing a nationwide inventory search, will ensure you get what you really want, rather than accepting what some dealer thinks everyone should buy.


Posted By: jamminalong on 08/24/11 11:55am

Mello Mike wrote:

Thanks for the replies everyone. We are in the process of buying a 2011 F-250 Crewcab shortbed with the 6.2L V8. The wife was very impressed with how it drove. Ford made some amazing steering, braking, and handling improvements from 2010 to 2011. Getting a F-250 makes me very happy because that is what I really wanted all along.

Now we just have to find a nice gently used camper (which will be much easier now that we have a F-250 vice a F-150).


Good to hear! Since you've made a wise choice and got things figured out then I won't have to tell her to "put her big girl pants on" j/k sorta! You need a truck to do a trucks job but they already told you that in the last 5 pages.

We too are looking at the 825 and a 250/2500 but I sure would love to have the old F350 dually diesel that we had back in the day. Just can't justify it with weekend camping. I drove it every chance I got...including to pick up the groceries. It's a good thing hubby doesn't mind the passenger seat.


98 Lance Squire
00 Chevy 2500HD 4x4




Posted By: JimTram on 08/24/11 11:55am

I ordered a 2012 F250 a month ago. It is now built and awaiting shipment (got the VIN) with an ETA the week of 9/6.

Looking at the specs again the cargo rating is 3800 lbs. GVW 9900 lbs.

However, when you add options this decreases somewhat. I feel that the COG is important as well, as the weakest link is the weight over the axles.

The rating for the front of the F250 is 5200 lbs, rear 6200 lbs. On the F350 add 1000 lbs to each.

The wet weight of a Lance 825 fully loaded is about 2500 lbs.

I considered a F350, the F250 is an overkill already for me.

If you may move up to a larger TC, for a few bucks more - the F350 may be the way to go as others have pointed out.


Posted By: woodsxr on 08/24/11 02:01pm

Here is my experience with the 825.
I have a 2001 Dodge 2500 4X4 Diesel (tow package) that I haul my Lance 825 on.
We just did a 10 day trip with it and thought the truck handled the weight well. Air bags are the only add on
I had the opportunity of going across a truck scale loaded.
The fresh water tank was full, black and grey were probably 1/3 full each.
The camper was not loaded heavy but had a Honda 2000i generator, food, drink and cloths for us to be comfy
The weights with us (approx 350lbs)in the cab were 4300 front, 10,250 total and 5900 rear.
I know the truck weighs 6800 lbs empty with nobody in it so do the math on what a Lance 825 will weigh ready to go.


Posted By: Mello Mike on 08/24/11 07:49pm

We just put a deposit on a Wolf Creek 850 by Northwood. We are really stoked!!!


Posted By: dadwolf2 on 08/24/11 08:12pm

Mello Mike wrote:

Yeah, I'd love to get a F-250 or F-350 but the truck will be the wife's daily driver. She loves how the F-150 handles and I can't say I blame her. We had a 2003 Ford Excursion with the 6.0L PSD and she hated to drive it. She said it drove like a truck.


I haven't driven the new trucks but it seems like they keep making the trucks nicer and nicer every year. Is it possible that a new F-350 SRW isn't as bad as she might imagine?

I guess ultimately you have to ask yourself what's more important, having the truck camper on a good platform or having that 1/2 ton cushy ride?


2005 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD,4X4,NV5600
2011 Outfitter Apex 8 (Love it)


Posted By: Bigfootchevy on 08/24/11 08:50pm

Congrats on your new truck and camper. I tired the 3/4 ton but soon moved to a 1 ton SRW. Good luck.

Paul


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 08/24/11 10:10pm

JimTram wrote:

I ordered a 2012 F250 a month ago. It is now built and awaiting shipment (got the VIN) with an ETA the week of 9/6.

Looking at the specs again the cargo rating is 3800 lbs. GVW 9900 lbs.

However, when you add options this decreases somewhat. I feel that the COG is important as well, as the weakest link is the weight over the axles.

The rating for the front of the F250 is 5200 lbs, rear 6200 lbs. On the F350 add 1000 lbs to each.

The wet weight of a Lance 825 fully loaded is about 2500 lbs.

I considered a F350, the F250 is an overkill already for me.

If you may move up to a larger TC, for a few bucks more - the F350 may be the way to go as others have pointed out.
9900 GVWR - 3800 Payload capacity = 6100 empty truck weight.

Going by what's listed in your signature, you ordered the diesel supercab short bed, I assume 2wd since you didn't say 4wd.

There is no way your diesel supercab weighs only 6100 lbs. I would believe 7000, not 6100.

Ford lists the payload for an F250 2wd diesel supercab short bed at 2850 lbs with a 9800 GVWR for 2011. Add 100 lbs for 9900 GVWR, the payload would be 2950.

9900 GVWR - 2950 payload rating = 6950 unloaded truck weight. This is a believable number. 6100 unloaded weight is not a believable number with the diesel and supercab. Maybe for the gas engine with regular cab, I could believe 6100.

By the way, congrats on the new truck.


Posted By: JimTram on 08/24/11 11:34pm

Thanks.

The spec's I mentioned was for a 2012 F250 Diesel, 4x2 SWB SRW, Supercab.

For reference purposes the specs are available here for your review:

http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty/specifications/view-all/


Front Axle Rating 5250 lbs. (F-250/F-350 4x2)
Rear Axle Rating 6200 lbs. (F-250/F-350 4x2)

GCWR 23500 lbs
GVWR 9900 lbs
Cargo 3800 lbs

In addition I ordered the camper package, so the above spec's are on the conservative side. I may also have the 10000 GVWR model from what I can read of the dealer codes.

Cheers.


SoCalDesertRider wrote:

JimTram wrote:

I ordered a 2012 F250 a month ago. It is now built and awaiting shipment (got the VIN) with an ETA the week of 9/6.

Looking at the specs again the cargo rating is 3800 lbs. GVW 9900 lbs.

However, when you add options this decreases somewhat. I feel that the COG is important as well, as the weakest link is the weight over the axles.

The rating for the front of the F250 is 5200 lbs, rear 6200 lbs. On the F350 add 1000 lbs to each.

The wet weight of a Lance 825 fully loaded is about 2500 lbs.

I considered a F350, the F250 is an overkill already for me.

If you may move up to a larger TC, for a few bucks more - the F350 may be the way to go as others have pointed out.
9900 GVWR - 3800 Payload capacity = 6100 empty truck weight.

Going by what's listed in your signature, you ordered the diesel supercab short bed, I assume 2wd since you didn't say 4wd.

There is no way your diesel supercab weighs only 6100 lbs. I would believe 7000, not 6100.

Ford lists the payload for an F250 2wd diesel supercab short bed at 2850 lbs with a 9800 GVWR for 2011. Add 100 lbs for 9900 GVWR, the payload would be 2950.

9900 GVWR - 2950 payload rating = 6950 unloaded truck weight. This is a believable number. 6100 unloaded weight is not a believable number with the diesel and supercab. Maybe for the gas engine with regular cab, I could believe 6100.

By the way, congrats on the new truck.


* This post was last edited 08/25/11 12:01am by JimTram *


Posted By: JimTram on 08/25/11 02:14am

I don't doubt what your saying. You may be right. I'll be sure to get it to a scale first chance I have.

The url I referenced does not differentiate cargo specs according to engine types, and the indicated cargo spec is before any additional options that may effect weight, i.e. diesel engine, transmission, and suspension.

Could not get my hands on a 2011 spec - I do think there are some increases in weight capacities, not sure though.

I'll take a payload of 2700/2800 lbs any day.

In either case - my 825 will be a comfortable fit.

Thanks for the tutorial and reality check. This is a great forum!!!

* This post was last edited 08/25/11 02:47am by JimTram *


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 08/25/11 12:41am

What I'm saying is that it is not possible to have a 3800 lb payload capacity in a truck with a 9900 lb GVWR unless the truck weighs 6100 lbs.

9900 - 3800 = 6100. The math doesn't lie.

So unless a 2012 F250 diesel supercab short bed 2wd truck weighs about 900 lbs less than a 2011 F250 diesel supercab short bed 2wd truck, it is not possible for the 2012 truck in that configuration to have a 3800 lb payload capacity.

What did they remove from the truck for 2012 that weighs 900 lbs?

I'm thinking that you are reading the payload capacity for a gas engine truck, not a diesel engine truck. That is likely the 900 lb weight difference.

Ford lists the GCWR for F250 diesel as 23,500. They list the 5th wheel tow rating for the F250 2wd supercab diesel as 14,300.

Tow rating is figured by subtracting the empty truck weight from the GCWR. Since we know the tow rating and the GCWR, we can subtract the tow rating from the GCWR to find the empty truck weight.

23,500 - 16,300 = 7200

Ford is saying the truck weighs 7200 lbs empty.

Now subtract the empty truck weight from the GVWR to find the payload rating.

9900 - 7200 = 2700

The payload capacity of a 2012 F250 supercab diesel 2wd base model truck appears to be 2700 lbs, if the truck weighs 7200 lbs empty. 7200 lbs is an entirely believable number for the empty weight of the truck. 6100 lbs is not a believable number for the diesel.


Posted By: Mello Mike on 08/25/11 05:41am

Looking at the window sticker of my 2011 Ford F-250, 4x2, 6.2L SB Crewcab I was reminded that my truck's GVWR was upgraded to 10,000 lbs vice the regular 9,400 lbs. This increases my payload to 3,500 lbs. SWEEET!

I found the very detailed specs for axles ratings, payload, dimensions, etc for Ford's 2011 SD fleet by Googling "2011 Ford F-250 rear GAWR." Look for the PDF with the following tag:

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/.../2011/2011_SD_Pickup_specs.pdf


Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 08/25/11 08:08am

JimTram, it sounds like your Lance 825 will be a good fit your truck.

MelloMike, yes, the 10K GVWR option, together with the Camper Package option, which adds heavier front springs and a rear sway bar, should make for a very good camper hauling F250.

To use the 3500 lb payload capacity that the 10K GVWR provides with the gas engine, you'll need to make sure your camper's center of gravity is far enough ahead of the truck's rear axle so the front axle can share some of the weight.

Rear axle load capacity is limited to about 3000-3200 lbs, which is the RGAWR of 6200 lbs, minus the empty rear axle weight of about 3000-3200 lbs. If all of your camper's weight is only carried by the rear axle (COG directly over the axle), then your payload capacity would be limited to 3000-3200 lbs, or somewhere thereabouts. This is not counting weight of passengers and other cargo in the cab of the truck, which load primarily the front axle, or tongue weight from a trailer, if you intend to tow a trailer with the camper on, which loads the rear axle exclusively at a rate greater than the actual tongue weight and takes weight off the front axle, if no weight distributing hitch is used.

Short bed trucks sometimes carry all of the camper weight on the rear axle, if the camper model is not chosen carefully and/or the camper is not loaded with heavy items forward. The rear storage compartments of short bed campers make it too easy to load cargo in the rear of the camper instead of the front.


Posted By: JimTram on 08/25/11 12:09pm

Thanks SoCalDesertRider. MelloMike thanks for the links. I was able to ascertain a few more things.

I checked the COG of the Lance and it fits within Ford's guideline per the referenced links.

After this mental masturbation drill (which I learned a lot) I am glad I did not get the F350 - which was my first choice. It would have been a wee bit of an overkill as I just need a small TC for just the wife and I.

Going to try it without airbags first, will probably get the bags after a few "Sea Trials".

I found this link which really simplified things:

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/rv_trailer_towing/2011/Slide-In%20Campers.pdf

Thanks all.





SoCalDesertRider wrote:

JimTram, it sounds like your Lance 825 will be a good fit your truck.

MelloMike, yes, the 10K GVWR option, together with the Camper Package option, which adds heavier front springs and a rear sway bar, should make for a very good camper hauling F250.

To use the 3500 lb payload capacity that the 10K GVWR provides with the gas engine, you'll need to make sure your camper's center of gravity is far enough ahead of the truck's rear axle so the front axle can share some of the weight.

Rear axle load capacity is limited to about 3000-3200 lbs, which is the RGAWR of 6200 lbs, minus the empty rear axle weight of about 3000-3200 lbs. If all of your camper's weight is only carried by the rear axle (COG directly over the axle), then your payload capacity would be limited to 3000-3200 lbs, or somewhere thereabouts. This is not counting weight of passengers and other cargo in the cab of the truck, which load primarily the front axle, or tongue weight from a trailer, if you intend to tow a trailer with the camper on, which loads the rear axle exclusively at a rate greater than the actual tongue weight and takes weight off the front axle, if no weight distributing hitch is used.

Short bed trucks sometimes carry all of the camper weight on the rear axle, if the camper model is not chosen carefully and/or the camper is not loaded with heavy items forward. The rear storage compartments of short bed campers make it too easy to load cargo in the rear of the camper instead of the front.



Posted By: duderino33 on 08/26/11 12:10pm

Just anothers dude set-up and opinion for what it's worth...

2006 F-150 Supercrew 6.5 bed & stock 5.4
1989 8.5' S&S 1700lbs dry as marked by mfg.
5.5 Lift and 35's
Air bags in rear

My truck does completely fine with this set-up. It takes a couple minutes to set the airbags right to limit the bouncing roll. It drives nicely, stops good, plenty of power.

The whole reason I got a camper was to get out camping for $1200. Fellas throw out buying new trucks like your going down and picking up a pair of loafers, may work for some but not me.

Is this pushing the limits of the RATED capacity, yes no doubt. Don't foprget the rated capacity is very much a product of corporate liability threasholds. Have a little common sense when driving and this can be a safe set-up that I have regularly been taking my family out.

I drive a lot of miles with the camper off so driving a 3/4 or 1 ton everyday isn't something I am interested in.

Can't get pic to post but its in my profile


Posted By: mkirsch on 08/26/11 01:05pm

You have the 6.5' bed and a "short bed" camper.

The SuperCrew from the OP has the extra-shorty 5.5' bed where the rear tires are just about rubbing on the back of the cab. So, not only would you be exceeding the truck's weight ratings by a wide margin, you'd be stacking it all behind the rear axle... That's a double-whammy.

It's great yours handles "just fine." But, your "just fine" and my "just fine" and the OPs "just fine" are most likely completely different.

That rig may be just fine to you because you're used to how it drives, or you justify it by saying that you're only driving it occasionally. Let an objective third party get behind the wheel of your rig and offer their opinion... I suspect they will feel an uncomfortable amount of body roll, maybe some mush in the handling qualities... Again, you're used to it so you may not notice.


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