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Topic: Plugging into home for 50 amp 220 volt Question.

Posted By: JMOOREPB on 07/24/11 06:00pm

Good day,
We have 2005 Country Coach and want to stoping at my sons for a nite.
We want to plug in the 50 am service so we can use the AC as it going to be hot. He has a 50 amp plug for his welder in the garage. Can we plug in there? its a 50 amp 220 volt service. Will it work?

Another simullar question, when we plug our 50 amp plug into a 50x30 extension, and that into a 30x20 extension, and that into a house 20 amp out let, how does that work???

dont want to blow anything up!!!

Thanks
Jerry


Posted By: ticat900 on 07/24/11 06:06pm

JMOOREPB wrote:

Good day,
We have 2005 Country Coach and want to stoping at my sons for a nite.
We want to plug in the 50 am service so we can use the AC as it going to be hot. He has a 50 amp plug for his welder in the garage. Can we plug in there? its a 50 amp 220 volt service. Will it work?

Another simullar question, when we plug our 50 amp plug into a 50x30 extension, and that into a 30x20 extension, and that into a house 20 amp out let, how does that work???

dont want to blow anything up!!!

Thanks
Jerry

did u mean we are stoping at our sons house?
when us go from 50 to 30 to 20 it ends up 20 amps which means it will charge the batterys,run the fridge and TV etc but wont run 2 AC etc


Posted By: DutchmenSport on 07/24/11 06:08pm

50 amp yes. 220 no! You'll blow something up in your RV!

50 amp yes. 110 yes! you can do it.


DutchmenSport

2014 Chevy Silverado 3500 Dually Duramax 6.6 HD diesel
2013 Keystone Outback 298RE Travel Trailer
Equal-i-zer WD hitch system



Posted By: PandK on 07/24/11 06:12pm

Generally a 50 amp welding outlet is NOT the same as an RV 50 amp outlet. The RV outlet is really two 50 amp 120 volt AC circuits. A 50 amp welder outlet is normally one 50 amp at 220 volts. Several thread on this.


Paul and Karla
Cinnamon & Pequeno - Spoiled Rotten Chihauhuas
2004 Rexhall Rexair DP3955
2013 Chevy Traverse


Posted By: Lug_Nut on 07/24/11 06:12pm

The recepticle is a different plug-in patern, but it will work. A standard 50 amp camp hookup is a 50 amp 240 volt or 100 amps at 120 VAC.
As far as stepping down you will have only the lowest link. If it goes through a 20 amp, then that's the maximum you will get. I hope I explained it in an understandable way.


'07 Newmar Essex 45' ISM 500 4 slides



Posted By: donkeydew on 07/24/11 06:14pm

DON'T DO IT
you will blow the works
what your rv has is two 120 volt circuits = 240 volts. not one 250 volt circuit


Posted By: DutchmenSport on 07/24/11 06:16pm

50 to 30, 30 to 20. 20 to a plug in the house. Yes, you can do it. BUT if you turn on more than 20 amps in the RV, you'll blow the breaker in the house. But yes, you can do that. You might only be able to run an air conditioner and a television, but if you turn on the microwave, you might pop the breaker in the house if it exceeds 20 amps. No damage, no harm there. You just have to watch what your turning on inside the RV and how much amps it's drawing, not to exceed the source it's plugged into!

I keep my TT plugged into a 20 amp service all the time at home, run the air conditioner and television, (and the power converter which runs all the time), and have no problems popping breakers (in the garage). But if we run the microwave, we turn off the air conditioner, and of course the hot water heater is not turn on either (at home), and if we do turn it on, we use gas, so the electric will not exceed the 20 amps.

But yes, you can go from 50 to 30 to 20 to a plug inside. Just remember also, whatever is running on the circuit INSIDE the house (even a 100 watt lightbulb) is taking AMPS from you have available in the RV.


Posted By: smkettner on 07/24/11 06:18pm

Not unless the wall connector is a NEMA 14-50R with a full size neutral. Most likely not.
And there is no adapter, you need to pull wire from the electric panel.

You can use the 50/30/20 adapter but to run even one air conditioner you may need to turn off all other breakers in the RV panel and run off battery and propane to allow all power to the single air conditioner. Worst case here is the home breaker shuts off power.


2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
675 watts solar
Send a PM if I missed something


Posted By: WinnebagoBob on 07/24/11 06:23pm

A 50 amp circuit is 220 volts if you connect a volt meter across the two load contacts. If you take your meter reading from each load contact to the nuetral contact the reading will be 110-120. There should be '0' volts when you connect the meter from the safety ground to the neutral. As previously stated by another responder the weldin receptical is a different configuration. Good Luck. Be VERY CAREFUL!


Posted By: past-MIdirector on 07/24/11 06:23pm

If it's the old style welder 3 hole outlet then no it can not be used since the 3 wire does not have a ground but 2 hots and neutral. If it's a 4 wire and the welder plug is the same as the RV then I'd use a meter to check to make sure the outlet is wire properly and you should be able to plug in with no problem.






Posted By: chewbear on 07/24/11 06:48pm

Run the Generator, one night shouldn't make neighbors too mad.


2002 Fleetwood Discovery
330 cat. '09 Escape toad.
Kathy & Joe wish you well.
My mind works like lightning,
one brilliant flash and it's
gone. (Maxine)



Posted By: wa8yxm on 07/24/11 06:53pm

First there are two different (Actually several different) 50 amp plugs, Welders normally have a "3 pin" plug. This MAY look a lot like a TT-30 and may in fact take a 30 amp RV plug.. DO NOT USE THIS TYPE OF OUTLET TO POWER AN RV as someone up-thread said you won't be happy.. There are several issues with using this that make it next to impossible to do anything about this.

IF, the welder outlet is 4-pin (4-wire) then it may well be possible with the proper adapter. Just what that adapter is I can not tell you or even imagine without seeing the outlet.. May not even need one but do not plug into a 220 volt outlet unless it is a proper 4=wire outlet and you have verified how it's wired.

Question 2:
Another simullar question, when we plug our 50 amp plug into a 50x30 extension, and that into a 30x20 extension, and that into a house 20 amp out let, how does that work???

It works very well, usually, but... You have very little power to play with. with 15 amps you can charge your batteries if they are low.

In fact what I do when plugging into 15 amps is pull the plug on the converter, and plug JUST IT into the house outlet with a 12ga extension cord and the prper adapter, yes, I need an adapter. NO, you can't buy that one far as I know.


Home is where I park it.
Kenwood TS-2000 housed in a 2005 Damon Intruder 377



Posted By: hershey on 07/24/11 06:57pm

Well, I hope that cleared everything up for you.
The correct answer is: Have a "qualified" electrician examine the welder circuit and if possible, add a 50 amp RV -4 prong receptacle for you to plug into. Or perhaps a 30 amp circuit if the 50 amp isn't possible. Please don't just Micky Mouse a setup for your MH to plug into. You have just way too much to lose. Way too much.
Trust a professional to give you the advice and hookup you can use safely.


hershey - albuquerque, nm
Someday Finally Got Here
My wife does all the driving - I just get to hold the steering wheel.
Superman was an illegal alien.
Expedition - Suzuki Grand Viagra

NASCAR 14 - 99




Posted By: I am still wayne_tw on 07/24/11 07:02pm

DutchmenSport wrote:

50 amp yes. 220 no! You'll blow something up in your RV!

50 amp yes. 110 yes! you can do it.


This actually is incorrect.

Fifty amp RV service is in fact 240 volts, and consists of two separate 120 volt 50 amp lines or "legs" (one red wire and one black wire), one neutral wire (white) and one ground (bare copper). The 50 amp RV plug is exactly the same as a 4 prong dryer plug and you could safely plug the RV into the 240 volt dryer plug.

There is no such thing as a 50 amp 120 volt RV service. There is, however, 30 amp RV service which consists of one 120 volt 30 amp line or "leg" (black wire), one neutral ( white wire), and one neutral ( bare copper). The plug for this service will be a large three prong plug.


Posted By: BB_TX on 07/24/11 07:17pm

Most of the answers above are generally (mostly?) correct. But Hershey has the best answer.
Unless you are electrically proficient and can follow the information included in this RV Electric site, then get an electrician to check it out for you. And print out a copy of the 50 amp info on the above site just to make sure he knows what to look for.


Posted By: Golden_HVAC on 07/24/11 07:21pm

Hi,

With the 50 to 30 to 20 amp adapters, you can run one air conditioner. It is best to plug in where the washer / dryer are located, as these are dedicated circuit breakers, 20 amps to each side of that receptical.

The welding receptical is probably only three wires, two hots and a ground. If it had a netural white wire that is #8 wire, then you could adapt it to a stove type receptical, really simple, and that is exactly what the RV uses. It would be possible to buy a surface mount stove receptical, wire it to the welding receptical, and have both plugs on the same 50 amp circuit breaker. Just don't use both at the same time, and you will not exceed 50 amps.

When the stove receptical is wired, normally the roud ground is on top, the netural will be on the bottom, and hot wires to each side. You must measure 120 volts between each side to ground and netural, then you will have a safe recepitcal to plug your expensive motorhome into.

If they have an electric dryer with 4 wires, you can make a adapter to plug into that, and be able to run all the air conditioners and microwave too. Just buy a surface mount receptical at Home Depot and a 4 wire dryer cord, and hook them up. Plug into the dryer receptical, and you will have a 30 amp 120/240 volt service to your coach, just like a campground, but "Limited" to 30 amps or about 7,000 watts. More than enough to run all the air conditioners and the microwave too.

Or run the generator for a while, cool the RV, then after shutting off the generator, run one A/C unit via the 50 - 30 - 20 amp adapter.

Fred.


Posted By: Sez Hoo! on 07/24/11 07:38pm

A standard welding outlet has two hot leads and a ground. A TV outlet has 2 hot leads an 50amps each. The difference is the welding plug has 3 prongs(2 hots and a ground)The RV plug has 4 prongs(2 hots 1 ground and 1 neutral)


Steven & Jane
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Jo (ridgeback on the road)
Lilly Pi(Kitten at large)
1998 Country Coach Intrigue
Athens, Ga



Posted By: kaydeejay on 07/24/11 07:41pm

Lug_Nut wrote:

The recepticle is a different plug-in pattern, but it will work. A standard 50 amp camp hookup is a 50 amp 240 volt or 100 amps at 120 VAC.
NO NO NO! It will NOT work!.
The welder outlet is a 3-pin plug - two hots,(plus ground), no neutral, so is ONLY capable of delivering 240 volts.
Most (if not all) of your coach appliances are 120V. You will not see 120V in your unit if you plug into the welder outlet.
The RV 50A outlet is the same as an electric stove. Two hots PLUS a NEUTRAL (and ground).
This supplies TWO 120V circuits at 50A each. The neutral is what enables this to happen with the two hots also available.
Unless your son has correctly wired a 4-prong stove outlet for his welder you SHOULD NOT PLUG INTO IT.


Keith J.
1999 Sunnybrook 27RKFS Fiver.
2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD CC/SB/DA 2WD, LLY with LBZ air cleaner, 52 gal Titan tank, Bilsteins, Line-X, Westin steps, Prodigy, Retrax cover, 16K Superglide, 5th-Airborne pin-box, Multi-vex mirrors, TST TPMS.



Posted By: docj on 07/24/11 07:44pm

donkeydew wrote:

DON'T DO IT
you will blow the works
what your rv has is two 120 volt circuits = 240 volts. not one 250 volt circuit


It is unfortunate that there is so much misinformation about electricity posted on this forum. A 50A RV hookup does have 240V available across the two hot legs but RVs are not normally wired to take advantage of this. If, for example, an RV dryer was wired for 240 there would be no way for it to operate if you had a 30A connection or with an RV generator.

So RVs are wired as if what they have are just two 50A 120V circuits. However, the standard 50A power cord is sized with a neutral conductor that assumes the two legs are opposite in phase. Otherwise the neutral would have to be significantly larger.


Sandie & Joel

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Posted By: Lug_Nut on 07/24/11 07:53pm

docj wrote:

donkeydew wrote:

DON'T DO IT
you will blow the works
what your rv has is two 120 volt circuits = 240 volts. not one 250 volt circuit


It is unfortunate that there is so much misinformation about electricity posted on this forum. A 50A RV hookup does have 240V available across the two hot legs but RVs are not normally wired to take advantage of this. If, for example, an RV dryer was wired for 240 there would be no way for it to operate if you had a 30A connection or with an RV generator.

So RVs are wired as if what they have are just two 50A 120V circuits. However, the standard 50A power cord is sized with a neutral conductor that assumes the two legs are opposite in phase. Otherwise the neutral would have to be significantly larger.


You are quite correct, except the 240 volts can be used for a dryer for example. The genset can also provide 240 VAC to operate the dryer too. My coach has a 240 VAC dryer and it will run on the genset or a true 50 amp (Two 50 amp hot wires at 120 out of phase.)


Posted By: dbates on 07/24/11 07:59pm

Click HERE then click "50-amp Service" and read the information there. If you really understand what it says then you'll know what you can or can't do. If you don't understand it then get a "qualified" electrician" to check it out for you.

As said before if you jury-rig it yourself you could blow up a lot of your electrical equipment.

Dave


Plus New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island & Nova Scotia



Posted By: Dale.Traveling on 07/24/11 08:14pm

docj wrote:


It is unfortunate that there is so much misinformation about electricity posted on this forum. A 50A RV hookup does have 240V available across the two hot legs but RVs are not normally wired to take advantage of this. If, for example, an RV dryer was wired for 240 there would be no way for it to operate if you had a 30A connection or with an RV generator.


Couldn't have said it better. Power coming from the pole into the stick and brinks is two lines of 120VAC and a netural. A 50 amp RV needs two 110VAC 50 amp feeds to be fully functional plus the ground plus the netural. Devices that require 220VAC, such as a cloths dryer make use of two hot lines working together within the device.

To tap into the welder outlet you'll need to probably wire up an adapter which isn't hard but it's equally easy to miswire so do you homework.

What I would do is head out to the local big box store and get one of these and wire up the pig tail. When you get home use it to wire up a 30 amp circuit for the RV. My 50 amp rig works just fine in the drive on 30 amps. Just can't run both air conditions at the same time.


2006 Hurricane 31D aka 'Moby' the Whale
FCC(SW) US Navy Retired 1980-2003
Stella my Navigator
Bogart the All American RV Dog
and
Cocoui waiting for me at the Rainbow Bridge



Posted By: Ivylog on 07/24/11 08:21pm

Dang , I ran my DP off my brother's three wire welder outlet for a week last month without burning anything up . Had to take his three wire plug off the welder and connect it to a four wires outlet using three wires and a jumper from the ground to the neutral. Guess I'm old enough to remember when we did not have neutral wires and when I look in a breaker box I see that the ground and neutral are tied together there too . Even ran 120V to another camper off the block heater plug. Guess I was real lucky, but the next time I'm there I'll do the same thing. All this stuff about the difference between a ground and a neutral.
PS, it's a big welder with a big ground wire.
OP, for one night run the generator.
Please read disclaimer below

* This post was edited 07/24/11 08:45pm by Ivylog *


This post is my opinion (free advice). It is not intended to influence anyone's judgment nor do I advocate anyone do what I propose.

04 Monaco Dynasty 42' quad slide
Where am I?
How I tow.


Posted By: kaydeejay on 07/25/11 06:34am

Ivylog wrote:

Dang , I ran my DP off my brother's three wire welder outlet for a week last month without burning anything up . Had to take his three wire plug off the welder and connect it to a four wires outlet using three wires and a jumper from the ground to the neutral.
BIG difference - you rigged up a neutral thru the ground wire. You didn't just "Plug it in".
Yup, while obviously not to code, your hookup will work.
(BTW, you have ALWAYS had a neutral wire, it's the ground that was omitted from early installations)


Posted By: rhochnadel on 07/25/11 07:53am

A lot of misinformation here, docj however said it best. In my opinion, if he had to ask the question in the first place, he shouldn't be doing the connections but calling in an electrician. Good luck!


'05 Keystone Challenger TPK
'01 Chev 2500HD Duramax/Allison
Corgi "Pippin" & cat "Sundance"



Posted By: rgatijnet1 on 07/25/11 08:11am

It would be fairly easy to make a small pigtail adapter to allow a mating female three prong welder plug to convert the welder plug into a male four prong plug for a 50 AMP RV cord. Cost would probably be about $30 for a short pigtail.
The problem is that IF you do not know how to wire it, take it to someone that does.


Posted By: Alphamonk on 07/25/11 09:25am

Dang! I have an electrical back ground. Have always wired up my Motorhome receptacles and you guys have almost confused ME!






Posted By: keepingthelightson on 07/25/11 10:12am

I am still wayne_tw wrote:

DutchmenSport wrote:

50 amp yes. 220 no! You'll blow something up in your RV!

50 amp yes. 110 yes! you can do it.


This actually is incorrect.

Fifty amp RV service is in fact 240 volts, and consists of two separate 120 volt 50 amp lines or "legs" (one red wire and one black wire), one neutral wire (white) and one ground (bare copper). The 50 amp RV plug is exactly the same as a 4 prong dryer plug and you could safely plug the RV into the 240 volt dryer plug.

There is no such thing as a 50 amp 120 volt RV service. There is, however, 30 amp RV service which consists of one 120 volt 30 amp line or "leg" (black wire), one neutral ( white wire), and one neutral ( bare copper). The plug for this service will be a large three prong plug.


Thanks for clarifying! I have been in the electrical field for 30 yrs. and it really upsets me when people give out the wrong information on something they don't understand. 240 volts exists in your 50A. MH connection, HOWEVER nothing in the MH runs on 240 volts.



05 Tiffin Phaeton 40 QDH w/4 slides
CAT C7 350+ HP MP-8, Aero Muffler, AFE Filter
06 HHR LT Toad
Ready Brute Elite


Posted By: randallb on 07/25/11 10:57am

WOW!!!!
Randy


Posted By: Just Bob on 07/25/11 11:08am

donkeydew wrote:

DON'T DO IT
you will blow the works
what your rv has is two 120 volt circuits = 240 volts. not one 250 volt circuit
Listen to donkeydew---you will fry the electronics


Posted By: CT_WANDERER on 07/25/11 11:40am

a litle knowledge can be dangeous! If you are not sure what you are doing.


Posted By: ticat900 on 07/25/11 11:51am

keepingthelightson wrote:

I am still wayne_tw wrote:

DutchmenSport wrote:

50 amp yes. 220 no! You'll blow something up in your RV!

50 amp yes. 110 yes! you can do it.


This actually is incorrect.

Fifty amp RV service is in fact 240 volts, and consists of two separate 120 volt 50 amp lines or "legs" (one red wire and one black wire), one neutral wire (white) and one ground (bare copper). The 50 amp RV plug is exactly the same as a 4 prong dryer plug and you could safely plug the RV into the 240 volt dryer plug.

There is no such thing as a 50 amp 120 volt RV service. There is, however, 30 amp RV service which consists of one 120 volt 30 amp line or "leg" (black wire), one neutral ( white wire), and one neutral ( bare copper). The plug for this service will be a large three prong plug.


Thanks for clarifying! I have been in the electrical field for 30 yrs. and it really upsets me when people give out the wrong information on something they don't understand. 240 volts exists in your 50A. MH connection, HOWEVER nothing in the MH runs on 240 volts.

and to add to that! Thats why you will see two AC inlet breakers on the MH electrical panel
one for each hot leg of the dual 50amp outlet


Posted By: frankdamp on 07/25/11 12:09pm

Go here for the real skinny:

http://www.myrv.us/Imgs/PDF/50-amp%20Service.pdf

The gotch is that the old standard plugs for dryers and stoves don't have the fourth pin. Without that, you're at risk of burning up any 115V appliance that is plugged in, particularly things like TV, stereo, VCR, DVD or microwave that have remote on capability or a timer/clock.


Frank Damp, DW - Eileen Anacortes, WA, soon to be ex-RVers

'02 Georgetown 325, F53, V-10, now at a consignment dealer (Nov 2014).
Dogs - 2 older Labs, both yellow males, both adopted.


Posted By: MickeyBrennan on 07/25/11 12:22pm

JMOOREPB wrote:

Good day,
We have 2005 Country Coach and want to stoping at my sons for a nite.
We want to plug in the 50 am service so we can use the AC as it going to be hot. He has a 50 amp plug for his welder in the garage. Can we plug in there? its a 50 amp 220 volt service. Will it work?

Another simullar question, when we plug our 50 amp plug into a 50x30 extension, and that into a 30x20 extension, and that into a house 20 amp out let, how does that work???

dont want to blow anything up!!!

Thanks
Jerry


If you have to ask, NO. Stay away from it.


Blog


Posted By: ticat900 on 07/25/11 12:26pm

frankdamp wrote:

Go here for the real skinny:

http://www.myrv.us/Imgs/PDF/50-amp%20Service.pdf

The gotch is that the old standard plugs for dryers and stoves don't have the fourth pin. Without that, you're at risk of burning up any 115V appliance that is plugged in, particularly things like TV, stereo, VCR, DVD or microwave that have remote on capability or a timer/clock.

The"gotch"? what the heck does that mean? I have never seen a stove outlet without 4 pins in the last 35 years or more? stoves always have 2 hots 1 neutral and one ground


Posted By: Tinstar on 07/25/11 12:50pm

Alphamonk wrote:

Dang! I have an electrical back ground. Have always wired up my Motorhome receptacles and you guys have almost confused ME!


X's 2


Never pass up a chance to go somewhere


Posted By: J-Rooster on 07/25/11 01:34pm

Tinstar wrote:

Alphamonk wrote:

Dang! I have an electrical back ground. Have always wired up my Motorhome receptacles and you guys have almost confused ME!


X's 2
X-3


Posted By: hohenwald48 on 07/25/11 02:07pm

About half of the information in this thread is correct.
About half of the information in this thread is incorrect.

If you knew enough about electricity to sort it out you would not have had to ask the original question in the first place.

You should seek assistance from someone who is qualified.

Not all electricians even understand the difference between an RV 50A/120V/240V and a welder 50A 240V.


2008 Fleetwood Jamboree 25G
1999 Jeep Wrangler
100% Solar Powered Home
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.


Posted By: Coach-man on 07/25/11 02:21pm

There is to much misinformation out there. No we do not live in Europe, and we have no 220/240 volt circuits. 220/240 is comprised of two 120 volt legs on different phases. if you measure between the two hot legs you will register 220/240, if you measure from the neutral to either of the legs you will measure 120 volts. A electric dryer plug with 4 "holes" will work just fine, (they used to be "3 holes" like the welder example given). You would have 1 red (120 volt, 1 black 120 volt, one white neutral, and a bare or green ground, (BTW the white and green are tied to the same place at the panel). So if you have an electric dryer, you can plug into it with the "50 amp RV cord, and not have to do anything else. If you don't, and are using the adaptors, then I would recommend running a a 30 AMP circuit and buy the necessary plug for that. that would be 120 volt 30 amp circuit with one black wire, one white wire neutral, and a green or bare ground wire, a three hole plug. The top would be vertical and the other two would be at about a 30 degree angle. This would be much cheaper and would give you your fridge, tv and one A/C unit.


Posted By: haddy1 on 07/25/11 03:19pm

You can't plug in directly to a 3wire welder outlet. That being said, I connect using my welder outlet at home by using a "special" adapter that I made.

It combines the neutral and ground from the MH into a common wire. It doesn't meet any code because you can legally connect the ground and neutral only at the panel, but my outlet is only about 6 feet from the panel so that's pretty close.

I personally feel that this setup is safe because it's basically a 110/220 setup just like a clothes dryer used before the mid 90's, but if you don't know for sure what you are doing, DON'T EVEN TRY.


2012 Tiffin Phaeton 36QSH
2007 Jeep Wrangler Toad


Posted By: sarman on 07/25/11 06:12pm

People keep talking about plugging into the dryer receptacle, or the welding plug. You might want to check it first with a meter. For that matter, you might want to check the CG pedestal with a meter before you flip the breaker. You do turn the breaker OFF before you plug your rig in... right? And you do make sure the loads are turned off in your rig before you plug in?

You know why breakers go bad, right? Unknowing campers.


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Posted By: waffen on 07/25/11 10:49pm

Had a welder circuit installed in my barn, asked my electrician of I could plug in the MH and the answer was an unqualified NO.. He installed a 50A 120, 120 no problem.

Don't do it or talk to an electrician that knows the difference.


2007 Hurricane 33H



Posted By: randco on 07/26/11 05:39am

All I can say is yikes...... There's a lot of mis-information in this thread.

A 50 amp RV service is nothing special. It is 120/240 volt 50 amp 3 pole plus ground service. Nothing special about it.

If the welder outlet in question only has three holes, then the answer is no.

However, you can make the three hole three wire circuit a 30 amp service but it requires some new parts. A TT-30R receptacle, 30 amp single pole breaker, a 3 or 4 foot length of #8-3 cable, a couple of cable lugs and some electrical tape. Also throw in a couple of hours to complete the job.

If I were only planning to spend a day or two I would try to get by using a 120 volt source. It I was going to spend any more than a couple of days I would modify the existing circuit.

If you want to know how to modify the existing service send me a Private Message.


Posted By: CJ7 on 07/26/11 08:15am

Yikes, +2

Never saw so much misinformation in a thread. As stated, at least half is incorrect, hoping I don't fall into that category.

Your RV 20 amp service is 3 wire 110 volts, hot, neutral, ground wires
Your RV 30 amp service is 3 wire 110 volts, hot, neutral, ground wires
Your RV 50 amp service is 4 wire 220 volts, 2 hots, neutral, ground wires

Voltage can be referred to a 110, 115, 120, all the same, simply local variations.
Voltage can be referred to as 220, 230, 240, all the same, simply local variations.

A 220 volt 50 amp, 4 wire home plug would be typically what your range requires. You need the neutral so your 110 volt clock and lights can run on one leg of the 220, while all of the heating elements run on 220. Hence the need for a 4 wire plug. A simple cooktop with no need for 110 volts may simply be a 3 wire plug.

A dryer circuit is usually 30 amp 3 or 4 wire. 3 wire being older with a combined neutral/ground wire, newer dryer circuits use a separate ground, thereby needing a 4 wire plug.

Code no longer allows the use of a combined neutral/ground for appliances.

A larger welder typically only needs 220 volts, so you will typically see a 3 hole plug, hot, hot and ground wires, no need for a neutral.

Your 4 wire RV circuit typically is the same as your 4 wire 50 amp home range circuit, although plug styles may vary.

Your RV 4 wire 50 amp circuit provides in effect 100 amps of 110 volt power compared to the 30 amps available in your 30 amp RV connection. A few RV's make use of the 220 volts available at the plug, for example if you have a dryer, but most just use it to provide additional 110 volt power by use of the opposite phases of the 110 volt circuits.

Never plug your 30 amp 110 volt RV plug into a 30 amp 220 volt dryer circuit.

No you cannot use a 3 wire welder circuit for your RV even by rewiring it at the plug without violating the code requirement for a separate neutral and ground.

Now, using your RV generator to backfeed your home during a power outage is a whole 'nuther animal, and worth it's own thread.

Quote:

However, you can make the three hole three wire circuit a 30 amp service

I don't see how you can do this either without violating the separate neutral and ground code requirement of a 3 wire 30 amp 110 volt service. And to suggest on a forum to violate code, whether it works practically or not, is in my opinion, inappropriare. Code is there for a reason, usually well founded by the school of hard and sometimes fatal knocks.

* This post was last edited 07/28/11 12:05pm by CJ7 *


Posted By: rgatijnet1 on 07/26/11 08:36am

Not sure about the code in your area but I know within my main breaker panel, the neutral and ground wires are all attached together. If I hooked up my 50 AMP RV with three wires, or four wires, it would make zero difference since the ground and neutral are bonded together in the main panel.
I should also add that the main electrical feed into my house is only three wires. Two 120 volt legs and an uninsulated ground wire, which is tied to my own ground rod and the steel in my concrete foundation.


Posted By: s N s on 07/26/11 08:41am

CJ7 wrote:

Yikes, +2

Never saw so much misinformation in a thread. As stated, at least half is incorrect, hoping I don't fall into that category.

Your RV 20 amp service is 3 wire 110 volts, hot, neutral, ground wires
Your RV 30 amp service is 3 wire 110 volts, hot, neutral, ground wires
Your RV 50 amp service is 4 wire 220 volts, 2 hots, neutral, ground wires

Voltage can be referred to a 110, 115, 120, all the same, simply local variations.
Voltage can be referred to as 220, 230, 240, all the same, simply local variations.

A 220 volt 50 amp, 4 wire home plug would be typically what your range requires. You need the neutral so your 110 volt clock and lights can run on one leg of the 220, while all of the heating elements run on 220. Hence the need for a 4 wire plug. A simple cooktop with no need for 110 volts may simply be a 3 wire plug.

A dryer may or may not need 110 volts (usually not), thereby you may have a 30 amp circuit with 3 or 4 wires.

A larger welder typically only needs 220 volts, so you will typically see a 3 hole plug, hot, hot and ground wires, no need for a neutral.

Your 4 wire RV circuit typically is the same as your 4 wire 50 amp home range circuit, although plug styles may vary.

Your RV 4 wire 50 amp circuit provides in effect 100 amps of 110 volt power. compared to the 30 amps available in your 30 amp RV connection. A few RV's make use of the 220 volts available at the plug, for example if you have a dryer, but most just use it to provide additional 110 volt power by use of the opposite phases of the 110 volt circuits.

Never plug your 30 amp 110 volt RV plug into a 30 amp 220 volt dryer circuit.

No you cannot use a 3 wire welder circuit for your RV even by rewiring it at the plug without violating the code requirement for a separate neutral and ground.

Now, using your RV generator to backfeed your home during a power outage is a whole 'nuther animal, and worth it's own thread.

Quote:

However, you can make the three hole three wire circuit a 30 amp service

I don't see how you can do this either without violating the separate neutral and ground code requirement of a 3 wire 30 amp 110 volt service. And to suggest on a forum to violate code, whether it works practically or not, is in my opinion, inappropriare. Code is there for a reason, usually well founded by the school of hard and sometimes fatal knocks.


YIKES X 3

Some of the info here is really troublesome. You know I was told in a thread way back when I new nothing about electricity and have since sat back and just read these posts. Well I've been in the industry for 42 years so I take offense to someone telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. The best advice given has been to hire a qualified electrical contractor if you have question of what you're trying to do. My best definition for electricity is " It's a hazard you cannot see". Trust me you can get hurt. Do the right thing and hire an electrician.


Steve & Sally
HiTee & Hudson (Our Little Poms)
Houston & Heidi (Forever In Our Hearts and Never Forgotten)
04 NEWMAR MACA 3778 W22
05 pt Cruiser Vert 5 speed
Demco baseplate with Commander Tow Bar

"Never try to outsmart your common sense"



Posted By: CT_WANDERER on 07/26/11 01:47pm

There are a lot of ways to juryrig things and it might work for a while or it might just melt everything teh second you turn on the power. And there are codes that should be followed. You can follow someones advice, given on this site. Just remember when something goes wrong it is you that has to pay the price, not the person who gave you the advice to do something that is against the code or law. Sometimes it is better to pay someone to do something, if you can get a person that know what is right and wrong, then to listen bad advice. All I am going to say is "Good Luck"


Posted By: Boarhog on 07/27/11 01:20am

I'm a qualified electrician.

Having said that...HIRE A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN!

First, the description of what is to be accomplished in unclear.

An electricians first needs to investigate for himself, to see what you have to work with in the MH, and what you have to work with at the house service panel.

After he determines the wiring layout needed, he needs to determine if the house has the correct voltages; and enough current capacity available.

Lastly he needs to deal with voltage drop from the panel to the coach, through correct wire sizing and perhaps a boosting transformer.

If any of this is done incorrectly the MH wiring could be fried.

You can't save enough money "doing the quick and dirty" here, to justify the risk.


Posted By: CJ7 on 07/27/11 06:36am

rgatijnet1 wrote:

Not sure about the code in your area but I know within my main breaker panel, the neutral and ground wires are all attached together. If I hooked up my 50 AMP RV with three wires, or four wires, it would make zero difference since the ground and neutral are bonded together in the main panel.
I should also add that the main electrical feed into my house is only three wires. Two 120 volt legs and an uninsulated ground wire, which is tied to my own ground rod and the steel in my concrete foundation.


A GOOD EXAMPLE OF MISINFORMATION WHICH CAN DE DEADLY. Typically, your panel requires that the ground be established locally, ground to the water pipe and/or ground rod therefore only a neutral from the pole (it is not a ground it is a neutral). Also tied into the resteel seems like a good idea. While many systems bond the ground and neutral in the panel, that doesn't mean that the neutral wire outside can be counted on as a ground. To do so can be dangerous as the neutral is connected to the hot with only your load separating the two wires, and if anything goes wrong, or gets wired wrong, the neutral can become energized AS WELL AS YOUR GROUND IF IT IS BONDED TO THE NEUTRAL IN THE RV PANEL, THEREFORE THE NEED FOR A GROUND WIRE SEPARATE FROM THE NEUTRAL.

The neutral wire carries electricity, the ground doesn't. To test that, just separate the wires on an extension cord and with a load on the circuit, check the amperage in the hot and neutral wires and you will see that they each carry the same amperage, while the ground has zero amps.

The ground wire is your life preserver, don't leave shore without it.

* This post was last edited 07/27/11 10:11am by CJ7 *


Posted By: Just Bob on 07/27/11 06:44am

CJ7 wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:

Not sure about the code in your area but I know within my main breaker panel, the neutral and ground wires are all attached together. If I hooked up my 50 AMP RV with three wires, or four wires, it would make zero difference since the ground and neutral are bonded together in the main panel.
I should also add that the main electrical feed into my house is only three wires. Two 120 volt legs and an uninsulated ground wire, which is tied to my own ground rod and the steel in my concrete foundation.


A GOOD EXAMPLE OF MISINFORMATION WHICH CAN DE DEADLY. Typically, your panel requires that the ground be established locally, ground to the water pipe and/or ground rod therefore only a neutral from the pole. Also tied into the resteel seems like a good idea. While many systems bond the ground and neutral in the panel, that doesn't mean that the neutral wire outside can be counted on as a ground. To do so can be dangerous as the neutral is connected to the hot with only your load separating the two wires, and if anything goes wrong, or gets wired wrong, the neutral can become energized AS WELL AS YOUR GROUND IF IT IS BONDED TO THE NEUTRAL IN THE RV PANEL, THEREFORE THE NEED FOR A GROUND WIRE SEPARATE FROM THE NEUTRAL.
You seem to be talking about 2 different things here. Residential electricity and RV electricity, or am I missing something?


Posted By: rgatijnet1 on 07/27/11 07:28am

CJ7 wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:

Not sure about the code in your area but I know within my main breaker panel, the neutral and ground wires are all attached together. If I hooked up my 50 AMP RV with three wires, or four wires, it would make zero difference since the ground and neutral are bonded together in the main panel.
I should also add that the main electrical feed into my house is only three wires. Two 120 volt legs and an uninsulated ground wire, which is tied to my own ground rod and the steel in my concrete foundation.


A GOOD EXAMPLE OF MISINFORMATION WHICH CAN DE DEADLY. Typically, your panel requires that the ground be established locally, ground to the water pipe and/or ground rod therefore only a neutral from the pole. Also tied into the resteel seems like a good idea. While many systems bond the ground and neutral in the panel, that doesn't mean that the neutral wire outside can be counted on as a ground. To do so can be dangerous as the neutral is connected to the hot with only your load separating the two wires, and if anything goes wrong, or gets wired wrong, the neutral can become energized AS WELL AS YOUR GROUND IF IT IS BONDED TO THE NEUTRAL IN THE RV PANEL, THEREFORE THE NEED FOR A GROUND WIRE SEPARATE FROM THE NEUTRAL.


Geeze, I love it when someone posts the obvious, and then suggests that others are wrong. OF COURSE, if something is wired WRONG, it can cause a problem.
The facts are, as I mentioned, my house has it's own ground rod, as well as an attachment to the steel in the foundation. The facts are that I have two 120 volt insulated wires coming into my house. These two wires are wrapped around an uninsulated wire that is tied to the ground at the meter panel, and then tied to the neutral inside my main breaker panel. perhaps you can see where I am going here. There are ZERO ohms of resistance between my ground and neutral wires throughout my electrical panel or my house wiring. When my RV is plugged into my house, with any kind of PROPERLY wired plug, be it four wires or three wires, ALL ground and neutral wires are tied together in my main panel, to my ground rod, and to the wires coming into my house. If some fool tried to wire something wrong, there is no possible way that a NEUTRAL wire could become energized, since it is tied to the ground and will pop one of the many circuit breakers.

* This post was edited 07/27/11 07:45am by rgatijnet1 *


Posted By: CJ7 on 07/27/11 10:38am

Following your logic there would be no reason to ever run a ground wire, just use the neutral. Hmm... wonder why they changed code over 50 yrs ago to require a separate ground wire on anything that is not double insulated?


Posted By: rgatijnet1 on 07/27/11 11:11am

CJ7 wrote:

Following your logic there would be no reason to ever run a ground wire, just use the neutral. Hmm... wonder why they changed code over 50 yrs ago to require a separate ground wire on anything that is not double insulated?

Simple answer...because without the ground, people could reverse polarity when they mis-wired something and still get shocked. With the ground, and with the ground attached to the neutral at the panel, power cannot be applied to the neutral leg without it shorting out.
No offense but you just gave me a reason for the third wire, not the fourth wire.


Posted By: Just Bob on 07/27/11 11:49am

Did you wire your own house?


Posted By: hershey on 07/27/11 12:20pm

Boarhog wrote:

I'm a qualified electrician.

Having said that...HIRE A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN!
....snip......


Every RV owner has a certain experience level in certain maintenance areas. I'm a pretty good shade tree electrician, mechanic, plumber and carpenter.
I ask advice and attempt to fix all kinds of problems on my MH and for the most part I'm successful. But: with electrical problems and changes to electrical, I would only trust that to a qualified electrician. The risk of costly damage, and the risk of electrocution is just way too big. I would never attempt to alter the shorepower as the original post is eluding to.


Posted By: CJ7 on 07/27/11 12:50pm

I think we have hijacked this thread long enough. Getting back the the OP's question, bottom line is if you want a plug for a 50 amp RV connection, make sure it is a 4 wire plug for the way your RV is designed and manufactured, that way you will have 2 hots, a neutral AND a ground. Wired to code and inspected of course. Electrician if you want, or with a homeowner permit if you know what you are doing, it is not rocket science


Posted By: StanleyandIris on 07/27/11 02:00pm

You will fry all of your electronics, microwave, freezer etc. Been there, done that. 220 is a HUGE no-no.

Iris


Posted By: CJ7 on 07/27/11 03:48pm

StanleyandIris wrote:

You will fry all of your electronics, microwave, freezer etc. Been there, done that. 220 is a HUGE no-no.

Iris


I agree, but only if you plug your 30 amp, 120 volt 3 prong from your RV into a 30 amp 240 volt 3 prong dryer circuit or you have a serious miswiring in your RV or in the 50 amp pedestal at the campground. And so it continues...


Posted By: wa8yxm on 07/27/11 05:09pm

The problem with a 240 volt WITH GROUND outlet is this

I have checked out some of those where the HOT leads were like six GA and the GROUND, closer to 12ga.. This means that if you start loading ONE LEG, say turn on ONE A/C and the Water heater, you may overload that bare wire and set fire to the building.

A proper 50 amp RV outlet has both hots and the neutral the same SIZE.. Yes, the safety ground may or may not be that same size, but the neutral WILL be the same size.

And there is a reason for having both a neutral and a safety ground even if they are "Identical" electrically... I won't re-type that reason today, Save to say it's called a SAFETY ground for a very good reason.


Posted By: hohenwald48 on 07/28/11 10:16am

Even if you use a 4 wire dryer outlet you still have the problem with neutral size probably being tooo small.

The NEC is not like some HOA rules about house color or keeping your hedges trimmed. I have never found anything in the NEC that is not there for safety. Just because a person doesn't understand why you should not use the bare ground wire as a neutral doesn't mean it should be done. Will it work? Yes. Is it safe? Definitely not.

You could wire your 50A motorhome with 18 gauge speaker wire and it would work for a little while. You could probably even run the A/C but it still doesn't make it safe or the right thing to do.

Don't trust any of the posts in this thread (including mine) consult an expert. You may be betting your life or the life of your grandchild on the wiring installed.

I really think the moderators should delete and lock these threads that allow so much inaccurate and dangerous information to be posted.


Posted By: supermod38 on 07/28/11 01:52pm

I really think the moderators should delete and lock these threads that allow so much inaccurate and dangerous information to be posted.

X-2


95 Southwind


Posted By: bsimonds on 07/28/11 02:16pm

Unfortunately it doesn't require any more expertise to post on a forum than it does to write on a bathroom wall. That having been said, I can't see saddling the moderators with the added responsibility of deciding which erroneous posts are so dangerous that they should be deleted. Several contradicting posts should alert the OP that he needs to seek expert help elsewhere.


Bill Simonds
'99 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom
330HP "Yellow" motor
'94 K5 Blazer 4X4 toad



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